RTITB vs ITSSAR

  • ZZJASEZZ
  • BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, United Kingdom
  • Posted 18 May 2016 07:00 AM
I have had Instructor training by both RTITB and ITSSAR. I have found that the mentality of ITSSAR teaches you to never give up and try your very best to get the trainees through the course, give second chances. RTITB I have found to be more stringent, you provide the necessary information to pass the course and basically if they dont deliver, they fail. Having experience from both of these accredited bodies I think that the training I deliver has a fair balance between the two.

RTITB F.L.T/MHE INSTRUCTOR/MANUAL HANDLING INSTRUCTOR.
Showing items 16 - 22 of 22 results.
  • Posted 1 Nov 2018 11:08 PM
  • • Modified 1 Nov 2018 11:09 PM by poster
Changes were needed as technology and standards move on, if no changes were ever required we would still be going through the chicane once and not doing pre-use inspection tests. IMO the test was too easy and during a recent exercise where we looked at one of our clients operators candidates that scored over 30 penalty points were the main cause of accidents in their warehouse.

I certainly think that some of the old point allocations were too low in some areas [url removed] failing to check all round being a 3 when it is a crucially important safety element and deserved a 5. Also the more than 3 faults in the same 5 point area being a disqualification is another one I definitely agree with! I do agree however that the mandatory correct questions on the theory test isn't necessarily the right way to go however.

I take your point about Brittop eventually getting recognition but I was also with ITSSAR from pretty much day 1 and remember what hard work it was back then to ween people off of RTITB and at the moment I don't see any reason to change over when my customers are happy with what we currently provide.

I will add however that ITSSAR do need to raise their game in some areas and look at technology and where it is heading but from conversations I have had recently I understand that is very much on their priority list.

I 100% agree that training is exactly that and it should be about giving the candidates the best possible tuition, sadly there are some companies out there (one we all know I'm sure) that can at times do the very minimum required and train people to pass a test not necessarily to be a safe operator (not remotely the same thing) and that has to change. While it doesn't we are all potentially fighting a losing battle.
  • FLTS
  • United Kingdom
  • Posted 2 Nov 2018 03:36 AM
  • • Modified 2 Nov 2018 09:48 AM by poster
Agreed on the observation penalties, not sure on things like 'touches course, racking, load' increasing to a 5 though, bearing in mind we have always had the facility to exclude for violent collision.

My main concern as previously stated, is that instructors will become so pre-occupied filling in forms correctly, that practical training will start to suffer.

I also cannot understand why every accrediting body has a separate registration system, surely if the ABA wants to do something useful it should create a centralised system?

For example I recently had to try and find proof of previous training for a new employee of a client of mine, he couldnt remember who had trained him or what accrediting body the training conpany belonged to, and his former employer wasnt prepared to co-operate, a familiar situation when people leave for another job and the previous employer gets the hump.

I was faced with days of chasing through the various organisations to find his registration, I was able to check two of databases as a registered user, but neither turned up anything, so then it was lots of emails and phone calls, a central database would make life so much easier.
  • Pest
  • United Kingdom
  • Posted 4 Nov 2018 08:54 AM
Hello David. Please get in touch. I agree with your explanation of the difference between RTITB and ITSSAR
Unfortunately in my humble opinion all Of the Accrediting Bodies have FAILED. Failed to adapt their training methods to suit modern truck Design and the considerable improvements in Warehousing systems and the type of personnel currently being selected for training.
As you know I was very involved in producing the standards for the Selection & Basic Training of Fork Truck Operators published by the RTITB in April 1969, updated August 1971. Standards produced to cater for the type of Counterbalance and Reach Trucks in use at that time and with the very valuable input of the then Her Majesties Inspectorate of Factories who shared with us their reports on serious and fatal accidents involving fork lift trucks over the period 1963 to 1967 to enable us to seek to reduce the terrible toll of accidents over that period.
Whilst the shape of the machines in use today is similar, the machines themselves have improved considerably so much so, that if we were designing the standards today we would have produced a far different syllabus to the one promoted by the current Accreditation bodies, who appear to be stuck in a time warp. Still "Handbrake Snatching" Still ignoring truck Manufacturers handbooks, still not telling their customers that their method of load handling does not conform to the manufacturer's recommendations. If you want more on this issue feel free to contact me

Do it Dai's Way
  • Pusey
  • Somerset, United Kingdom
  • Posted 14 Jun 2019 12:56 AM
Hello Pest,
If you are who I think you are, I have just discovered your last post on this subject.
I have no influence now that I have retired fully from anything to do with mechanical handling. I stood my ground over the manner in which people with a lot of experience were being treated within one of the accrediting bodies and simply walked away, after I was put under some sort of investigation without any warning, having been spied on by one of my colleagues (I guessed that he was doing so, and accused him to his face in front of our then managing director.) They were obviously too shy to suggest that there might be a discussion to have. I was 68 at the time. They wanted me, and two others out of the way and, unfortunately, they succeeded.
As i have already said, I worked for both ITSSAR and RTITB,including during the days when RTITB was a statutory training board. I had managed a group training association under RTITB and introduced LT operator training into our portfolio, and I knew the author of the original Trainer's Guide, so I have been around for a long time.
under the original RTITB regime, I was appointed a lift truck specialist for the South West and Wales but left to pursue other interests for a time.
Later, as I think you know, I joined ITSSAR in its very young days and helped to develop what was then a friendly, helpful approach to training organisations, on the basis that we were looking for success, not failure (one of your phrases, i think!).
After some time, I was approached by RTITB to rejoin them, and as they were offering a job, rather then being self-employed, I took the offer.
My role at that time was as Development Officer. My first success was to introduce a wider range of trainers' guides for a widr range of truck types. I cannot claim the one for pedestrian controlled trucks, but rough terrain masted and telescopic handlers, pivot-steer, order pickers, VNA trucks, vehicle-mounted lift trucks, demountable containers, multi-purpose vehicles were all my work. in addition, i set up the initial operwtor registration programme and wrote the instructor training manual. these were the core of RTITB's more friendly approach. change of personnel within,including change of personalities who had no practical training experience or experience of being on the road in monitoring activities, but led to degrees of discomfort as far as I was concerned, which was why i left.
I have been approached to develop another accrediting body and di some basic work on guides, policies and procedures, but my wife, bless her, slammed her foot down and said NO - loudly!
so,now, i occasionally read Forklift Action News and the forum letters, and occasionally respond.
I did it Dai's way!!

David
  • Posted 11 Jul 2019 04:12 PM
Without Prejudice

It was six years ago that the HSE announced that they no longer administered an Accrediting Bodies Scheme, this information is written in the Third edition of L117 which was published in 2013. Page 19 para 95 clarifies a Training Providers requirements and para 96 confirms the ABA status. Page 40 confirms the HSE stance that the ABA is merely a useful contact. ( anywhere that gives information about training etc is a useful contact ! ). This is the truth of the training standards and can be checked on the HSE website you DO NOT HAVE TO USE THE ABA OLD BODIES.

The HSE have not since the Third Edition recognised any Organisations (AITT, ITSSAR, NPORS or RTITB) as Accrediting Bodies, they also no longer recognise the ABA itself as an Accrediting Body as outlined in my previous paragraph.


I do at times despair that ABA registered training providers do not appear to have read the "Bible" to which they are required to operate. There are plenty of other training bodies the newest being BRITTOp who are one year old this month are making great strides forward in the market place. Cheaper alternative to the old bodies and light years ahead in most things.

BRITTOP Training Registration Scheme.
WWW.BRITTOPLTD.CO.UK
  • Posted 21 Nov 2019 04:24 AM
I had been an accredited instructor for the past 10 years with ITSSAR and my re-reg was due at the end of May 2019. I decided not to go for it as I feel that I don't actually get any support from them unless it involved me giving them money. Even if I decided to go and do the ITSSAR re-reg now, they have advised me that I would need to go on another full 10 day instructor course even though I've been in constant work as an instructor for the past 10 yrs. It makes no sense...

I have since joined a newly formed accredidting body called "NAMBEX" (National Accredited Members Body of Examiners).

They have supported me more in the past 6 months than ITSSAR have ever done in the past 10 years. I pay a yearly registration fee, but for that, they do everything, all I have to do is go and do the job, send them the completed paperwork and they do the rest. All operator ID cards and certification is completed by them and sent back to me within 5 days.

ID cards are an optional thing, not every company that I do training for wants them and I've never seen a certificate that looks so professional before. The operators that get issued them have said they get a real sense of pride and acheivment when they recieve them.

All course paperwork is provided to me (3 pages of it) included within their study book which means I dont have to keep printing it off every week. Powerpoint Presentations, course syllabus, training videos are free to download.

I have booked a course with them to gain my lorry mounted FLT (moffett) and as im already a registered member with them, I've recieved an 80% discount on the course. Effectively im paying £76 in total, its great...

The course content is more relevant to this century..

They encourage me to train each trainee operator to their own personal strengths. I've never come across that before, certainly not with ITSSAR.

They are constantly updating their members page on their website with relevant information, keeping me up to date with all of the latest regs and even if I have questions after office hours, they encourage all of their members to contact the directors directly.

GC
  • Pjr09
  • Yorkshire, United Kingdom
  • Posted 21 Nov 2019 04:54 AM
Suggest you get in touch with BRITTOP [url removed]

Training to a standard not a price.

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