yep i guess it all depends on what part of the world your in, which mfg your dealing with.
In my 40yrs in this business i've only seen maybe 2 cases where inhouse techs at an outside company were granted access to mfg software, and there was a limited use policy in place as well, their software was not a full version, they only had access to the diagnostic side of it, all other funcationality was disbled. In this case it was with diagnozer (cat diagnostic software) and i think it was a test program they were doing with this customer. And during the time i was servicing this customer they had a breach in security due to one tech at one of their facilities handing out the passcode, so they had to change the access method. If i remember correctly they eventually discontinued this.
In my experience most mfg's are going to be resistant to giving it out to a non-dealer.

if your going to have any luck with this kind of pursuit it has to be done prior to the truck purchase. after that it's they have a service hostage. just experienced it with two new Jungheinrich trucks. will not train you. they say you have to use factory trained techs that come to your place and camp on the phone lol. $$ per hour

We approached a main dealer and they said we could get the software providing we attended their in-house training. Problem was the training cost over 250 thousand and that was before the cost of the software and annual licence. In the end we sourced alternative software for a fraction of the cost.

well bbforks,
i know several big customers that do national accounts, they buy fleets of trucks over a pre-agreed timespan under contract.

I'm sure that translates into lots of money for the manufacturer.
It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out. If the company has thier own tech's with 'inhouse' maintenance i'm sure the mfg's would bend the rule in most cases.

:o)

swoop- you hit the nail on the head! Money is the ultimate persuader. Most rules can be broken with the right amt of persuasion. I was curious on just how much it took.

well burtkwok
there is always an exception to the rule, especially when theres money to be made ;o)

I can't mention anyone directly in this post, but i can confirm that i have been involved with a a large German manufacturer of fork trucks and as a large customer and we have our own engineers who have full engineer access to this particular companies software, the company i work for have over 3500 mhe, so this might have been the deciding factor to keep us on side and we have an excellent relationship with this manufacturer and i personally had to sign an agreement strictly detailing that i was not to give this information to anyone outside the company, so it is possible, but you have to be buying some serious units and that is all i can say on that matter for obvious reasons.

generally these large fleet customers enter negotiation for contracts with the manufacturer (the dealer is merely the middle man) They sign on to purchase a certain number of trucks over a predetermined period of time. The training for thier own techs is an option that would be negotiated at the table and the dealer would be required to supply them with said training and any diagnostic equipment they might need or the manufacturer may elect to train thier tech's at the factory. Probably whichever is the cheaper side of that.
And in alot of cases they add-in a maintenance agreement for an extended warranty that would be either a power train warranty for lets say 5yrs , 10k hrs or something to that effect.

Of course this all depends on what the manufacturer is willing to do to get the contract. If the customer is large enough and buys enough trucks they may be willing to do most of these things but it is not done by all manufacturers for any customer.
They would have to sustain a substantial profit from the transaction before they would even consider it i would think.

As for the small company with lets say 20 to 30 trucks? , i don't think they would even consider in-house tech training, they would force the customer to lean on the dealer for support.

i know of one incident where a rather large company here had thier own techs, they did get factory training and even got the diagnostic materials they needed but were eventually restricted on the service information because of a security leak that was allowing many people to access thier online website for the manuals and service info that were unauthorized. (yes they were handing out the access info to other unauthorized people)
The factory cut them (and everyone else that wasn't a dealer out of the website and sent them just basic software that ran directly on thier laptops or desktops and severely limited thier ability to get the information they needed to do thier jobs.

So in a nutshell any manufacturer that allows large company's access to this information are just being gracious about it, there is no guarantee it would happen.

@bbforks

In 2008 Microsft had to pay nearly 900 milions Euro penalty for not making available the full information about their soft to other companies, to enable them to make their products fully compatibile with Microsoft offer.
In 2011 Microsoft was punished by E U for remowing the Browser Choice Screen from their Winows 7. The penalty was 561 millions Euro.
Generally Microsft was painfully punished in Europe for monpolistic practices.
Totally, within last few years, the penalties given to Microsoft in Europe exceeded 2 billion Euro.
Europe doesn't like monpoly suppliers.
I see kind of analogy in forklift trucks bussines.
When you sentence the users for lifetime manufacturer service, this is a straight monopoly practics for me.

Karait- what problems did Microsoft have in Europe- with the Explorer &/or Media player?

Some remarks basing on my experience with Kion/Linde.

Linde developed a customer version of diagnostic software which is destined for key account customers.
The cost was extreme - in 2008 basic soft costed something between 4 and 5 k euro, plus yearly licence (over 1500 Euro).
The soft had only basic features (no adjustments, only diagnostics), but it enabled at least some orientation about trucks condition.

This was presumed for REALLY big customers and the agreement was usually signed between HQ guys from both sides.
I remember the deal with Kaufland when tousands of trucks were delivered every year for several years all over the Europe.
And this deal included the access to the software in several countries. At the end , at least in Poland, the soft was never delivered.
Theoretically, it's up to the dealer which of the customers deserves the access, but praxis is rather tough.

Anyway - my opinion is, that within 5 - 8 years, the manufacturers, who sell the sophisticated trucks, which need the restricted access software to maintain them, will encounter the same problem as Microsoft in Europe, with their Explorer or Media Player attached to Windows.

I am betting that any decisions made that might allow that to happen would only be made if the number of forklifts purchased reached into the "thousands".
And even if it did ever occur, surely there would be a lot of restrictions on just what the "out of dealer/corporate network" personnel would have access to, etc.
A more likely scenario (in my opinion) would be that the purchasing company would negotiate some kind of deal or agreement wherein OEM factory service reps or techs from the OEM local dealership would come onsite to perform services or adjustments and such.
Of course, if a local dealer was big enough to shoulder the risks of letting proprietary software/hardware be pilfered in a process like that, I guess they could shrug it off.
And then there is also the possibility that policies exist PROHIBITING dealers from engaging in activities like this.
I really can't imagine an OEM willing to give away intellectual property that they have vested huge sums of capital in, and for which they expect to make a profit from having said intellectual property in their possession.
I am, of course, curious to learn what prompted this discussion, but that may be something you SHOULD NOT reveal.

Doubt that it would matter how many trucks they purchased......I have worked for a couple dealerships...one was crown/Toyota and current is Nissan/CAT.....at both places I have had a couple LARGE customers and never was they allowed the software or cables or any other PROPRIETARY info to access the computers/software...when anything needed to be done it was up to the dealership to do the work...besides most diagnostic software anymore needs updated regularly or it won't work