Higherandhigher i have given many people the opportunity to see our spec sheet and many people have taken this offer up.

We are not talking about KION here we are talking about Linde a brand of KION. KION has a number of brands Still Baoli, Voltas, OM Still and for many companies is not just Linde.

If you see KION as only Linde then it is your own limitations , i do understand the capabilities of asian manufactures but many of the people on here saying about Heli sany or the other Chinese manufactures are the people promoting premium brand trucks.

We as a company keep in the markets we set out to compete in and will move to other markets when ready. We also don't tie our customers to 5 year or long term rental contracts we offer them a service that as far as we know no one in the market can offer , eight hours back in service guarantee or the month rent free. If we fail to deliver on this service our customers are open to off hire the trucks.

Now when you look at the market as a hole most hires go over 5 years and if the truck or company don't perform the customer has to wait till the end of the contract to move. We don't knock the market we try to promote a better level of service for the customer.


As for the Linde 1411 what this post is about i personally don't think Linde has done a great job on this truck. may be my expectations are higher than linde or may be Linde have seen something i have not. But to me if you give a better service than your competitors at a lower price than customers will come to you.


We don't have hundreds of managers on high salaries we keep our cost to what we can make a profit and offer value for money. our values are simple Putting the Customer first, Keep it simple and Make a difference together.


we also believe in Quality, innovation and meeting our customers needs


Now if this is wrong we will find out the hard way but i don't believe it is

Exalt, with respect, 90% of the content of your last 3 posts have been speculation. It's clear you don't understand the structure of KION, the changing market demands or the capabilities of Asian manufacturers.

When you have a product to benchmark against the brands you are listing, then all in this forum may be interested to see the results. It's not smart to knock the competition as hard as you do. When you are trying to build a new brand; trust, service and quality are what you should focus on.

Let's hope your next post is a spec sheet or a link to your updated website!

Hi Big Al Flt so what you are saying is customers don't care about drive line. If this is the case than why do Linde charge more for a hydrostatic truck and say this is a premium product. if it doesn't matter than why did Linde do a Hydrostatic big truck in the first place. Customers do care about what drive line they have.


So in away now Linde will be a lower cost than say a Hyster Kalmar Taylor or KONE SMV don't exist any more.Will this mean that Linde don't manufacture premium trucks any more they are just like the rest but at a lower cost.

If this is the case will they be the same price as a Sany or Heli like i said before the 1411 is a Chinese manufactured truck and you have suggested they will be a lower price than some competitors so will they now compete with economy trucks


Dose this mean we are seeing a change of the Linde policy on how they will market their trucks. They won't say a Linde truck is a premium truck any more they are a more basic truck in big trucks.

Will Linde also change their big truck web site as they say the 1401 is the most economical truck on the global market , but as you have pointed out the price is to high

As I said before most customers don't care about drive line technology, but if they can get a Linde heavy truck for significantly less than the hydrostatic 1401, and cheaper than Hyster, Kalmar, SMV etc then they are very happy, because they still get the same global support and service they do with the 1401 truck, but at a significant discount.

Price point perhaps?
That's what I gathered from all of this.

I do not know any figures, how much is a 16 ton hyster vs the current Linde equivalent?

Just for the people who think i knock KION i don't i just like i have said in another post use the research we have done over the last couple of years in my posts some times.


The one thing i can say with confer dance is that in big truck trucks over 10 ton Linde have failed to sell any in reasonable number since around 2011. So for people like Big Al FLt who believe they can sell a Linde 1411 easily good luck its going to be a hard sell.


These people are quick to come on here and say they can do this but they have not said how they think they might

Linde have always claimed to be a premium product and have always charged a premium for this product.

Now with the 1411 and the HT 2 ton - 3 ton truck looking to go into the North American market how can they claim they are premium and say a Heli another Chinese company is not. Toyota sell TC and hydrostatic trucks at the same price the use many of the same components unlike Linde with the HT. You would never see Rolls Royce competing with ford.


KION is totally different from Linde KION have many brands which Linde is one in different markets so they are different in what they are


Linde is losing direction in ware it is in warehousing it is behind the likes of Junghienrich in IC trucks it is behind Toyota and in Big trucks its not even in the market , Now until some one can come up with a reason why it is in the market for big truck that says they build just as many big trucks as the three companies i mentioned they are not really in this market.

Thank you for the clarification. I stand by my comment.
I see that is all you recognize from my comment.

I think partsguy5 offered the best suggestions.

Good luck over here.

First Big Al Flt , im glad you understand our business and our market Knowing this you will know as we do how many trucks we are going to produce over the next three years , you will also know who are customers are , and how many truck these will take.

You will again know that Linde has failed to sell the 10 - 16 ton in any numbers never passing 120 machines a year over the last three years.You again will know that the main dealers the important ones to Linde the German dealers won't touch the 1411 so you can bet they wont do any better than the 1401. as they are meant for North America a market that even KION admit they have a one percent market share

You will also know how to sell this truck to your customers a point you have not said. But im sure your customers are Knocking on your door saying sell us this truck. We will abandon our NACCO, Taylor, and Kalmar trucks and come to Linde who can only other a second or third rate truck looking at it


Stam i said this will be the undoing of Linde not KION there is a difference KION are KION and Linde is Linde in fact KION wanted to distance it self from Linde in North america thats why it changed the name to KION North america from Linde North america

We fully understand how important service is to our customers that is why we are concentrating on the markets we are , But are able to fly service tech to train before we enter other markets and yes we have a budget to cover all of this. we have not just decided to start this project we have done years of research in to this and know how to move our product to the market. We understand you build the service side first the bring in the product and yes it will take over 12 month before we look out side our main market but when we do people will know because we count service back as our top priority we understand how important service is this is why we have designed our truck to allow it to be back in service in under 8 hours from reviving a brake down call

exhalt,
Any lift brought to any market is only as good as the support behind it - some key elements to support is having trained service & repair technician - having just an independent service company take care of a truck won't be good without training & proper service manual/parts manual (either hard copy or rand service diagnostic; local parts availability - not just PM parts, but hard parts - customer won't like having to have parts dispatched from overseas, customs always add time to delivery & emergency air freight is very expensive; are the tires size readily available in the country where the truck will be delivered; who, what and where would stock parts - certainly an independent dealer would not be in a position to make a significant investment in the hopes that they might be needed some day; approved operator training materials availability; warranty administration & procedures & reimbursement policies, timely technical service reports issuance.

To validate the machines capability product demonstration at the customers site is key - how would this be handled.

As you know I worked with Lancer Boss via a private label agreement with Allis-Chalmers - we had many issues -our dealers lost many customers because of lack of satisfactory product support back up. Smoke & Mirrors might sell the first unit but poor back up will spread like wild fire - through various trade associations meetings forklift users are often closely connected like concrete products, hardwood lumber (or timber as it is called in England), port work, etc

I don't see how adding a lower budget truck that may appeal to some operations would be a complete undoing of a conglomerate such as kion.

To me this is smart, now you have a line up to compete with everything. Is this not a good way to add more sales possibly to clientele you were overpriced for before?

I mean jeez man if the tc truck is a p.o.s. they can always say this is why we have this other more expensive truck we offered to you first.

Why do auto manufacturers build many different models instead of just one that is the "best" every user has a different agenda and budget. I need to get to my clients everyday but I dont use the most expensive most reliable most luxurious vehicle, I use what I can afford to even if it might not last as long or perform as well but it fits in my budget and gets the job done just as effectively.




Open your mind. Different strokes for different folks.

Exact, you're not "in" any markets..............

We are OK in the Markets we are in , but still Know one has said how they will sell the benefits of hydrostatic then have to sell the same customer a torque converter truck. Customers will say well if TC is good enough for big trucks then why not smaller trucks and Linde will lose sales. Linde only sell well in Europe this is mainly Germany and France. How can some one try to sell say a 5 ton truck at a much higher price than a competitors truck and then sell a larger truck with a TC Ultimately it will be the undoing of Linde

Just another point even in the markets we are in we will still match Linde in heavy trucks, Last year and This year Linde sales put together in heavy truck did not match half of say NACCO or Taylor

Exalt, ultimately people will but any truck before they buy yours simply because they can. Your "website" still says "coming in 2014". It will be long time before you're exporting trucks in any significant volume.

You can sell your truck as cheap as you like, but it will take you 10 years to build any kind of reputation. I'm glad you have wealthy backers, because they are going to have to dig deep.

As I said before, I wish you all the best

Well i have asked people who are on here knocking me to come up with how they believe the linde 1411 is a better truck and how can they sell this being a TC as against a Hydrostatic based on the smaller Linde range.


No body has taken this offer up yet and i don't believe they will ever do this. But Big Al Flt did mention that he believes our product might struggle when we look to expand out side the middle east region.So i have done a little research to see if we will. Now we do use the same MTU 4R1000 engine as linde will use and we also use world class hydraulics well proven. We also offer the opportunity for local service companies that might not be as large as some of the bigger companies to compete by offer service only. we also offer a back in service guarantee of under 8 hour or the customer gets the month rent free.


So a basic rental like what we offer no contract so they can send the truck back when they have finished works on these prices

7 ton 16,000 pounds us dollars competitor 3,000 exalt 1,755
10 ton 22,500 pounds us dollar competitor 4,500 exalt 3,500
16 ton 36,000 pounds us dollar competitor 6,000 exalt 4,000


Now what Exalt rental offer is a high quality truck at a very good price with what can be said is a good guarantee. And also offer local service companies to be able to compete at lower prices than some of the larger companies for services bringing benefits to the customer.



Now i know people will say its Ok to put this on here but can i rent one of the trucks in Dallas LA or any other US city well the answer will be yes


We are able to offer this buy dealing direct and allowing local service companies to concentrate on what they do best service
and buy also designing a product that meet the demands of the rental market