The use of Nuclear heat can produce cheap H2. The new technology that is being developed would use heat from nuclear reactors in a thermochemical process to decompose water into its basic components of oxygen and hydrogen. The water splitting is done using a copper-chlorine cycle. Thermochemical plants located near nuclear facilties that use the spent heat from the nuclear plants can generate hydrogen fuel cheap. We should also look into tapping into the methane under the solar ice caps before it is released into the atmosphere. Methane is 10 times worst than Co2 gases that contribute to global warming. I am still sticking with H2, the #1 element on Earth (the fragile planet).

Hydrogen is coming but I can recall people talking about flying car and they are not here. Looking at any alternative fuel is going to be the way to get the fuel cells out in the market. Going back to using Methanol the project that Cellex tried Methanol they where using a technology called reforming. The technology had its problems but it worked. Now MHD Green is using a new technology direct methanol fuel cell or DMFCs. This address all the problems Cellex was having before they jumped to Hydrogen. I still think Hydrogen is going to happen but with the high costs to get it and to store it is going to be awhile before it has an impact in in the forklift market when products like methanol can be used NOW and at about 80% less cost than Hydrogen.

Fossil Fuels will be used in most Hydrogen producing plants. The good thing about producing Hydrogen fuel is that it will be clean after it is made. The plants that produce H2 will have scrubbers to collect at least 90% of the Co2 gases before it goes into the atmosphere. Presently you have millions of transportation vehicles, trains, planes, boats, etc, emitting tons of Co2 that help create the Global Warming effect. You will see other technogies that won't require the use of fossil fuels. Hammerfest Energi is presently working on some cool stuff.

Quote: "Is it the American government who see the development of Hydrogen for the lift truck industry as an interm step toward Hydrogen taking over from oil?"

The only reason this administration has shown any interest in hydrogen is that they realized that the hydrogen would most likely be created through the use of fossil fuels (something that the average Joe doesn't know). Therefore they can give the appearance of getting away from fossil fuels without actually getting away from fossil fuels.
I think you're probably being a little paranoid, but a little paranoia isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Lead Acid Batteries are on their way out at a slow pace. There are several reasons the Lead Acid Batteries should be phased out. Lead mining is very dangerous and some plants are being closed without new ones being reopened (mostly health reasons). Most companies are polluting the water supplies with contaminates that are washed from the tops of the Lead Acid Batteries and the worst is the Lead contamination to the human health when working on Lead acid batteries. OSHA (part of the American Government) monitors the safety of battery repair shops. The lead from the drill work has been known to enter the body and creates many problems to the internal organs. Hepa vacuums must be used during repairs. Lead Paint has been a recent problem with toys from China. Lead is just not healthy and the governments of all countries have been easy on the lead acid battery laws for a long time because there is no other infrastructure for powering electric trucks at this time. Hydrogen Fuel Cell is the way to go in the near future and complete ultra-capacitors (maxwell) after that.

Does anyone wonder why the price of lead has sky rocketed over the past few years? It has jumped from $.30/lb to $1.80. That means a 2,000 lb lead acid battery's raw material went from $600 to $3600. My conspiracy theory is that this is an intentional market manipulation to make Hydrogen fuel cells more economically competitive. (Is it the American government who see the development of Hydrogen for the lift truck industry as an interm step toward Hydrogen taking over from oil?)

Cellex used Methanol during thier testing process several years ago. It was working very well but there seem to be some issues that were well documented. They slowly converted into Hydrogen fuel cells and they were recently bought out by Plug Power. Plug Power also bought out General Hydrogen. Hydrogen is the future energy source and is the #1 element available to us on this fragile Earth. Look for a Hydrogen splitting machine in the future. This will remove Hydrogen from tap water and purify it at the same time. It is being done in labs at this time at a high cost and should have some cheaper results soon. Unless your big oil companies step in and buy the rights to produce this equipment. "go to fuelcellsworks dot com for more info"

Why Hydrogen fuel cells? MHD Green Energy has a Methanol fuel cell that they have been testting for two year at some very big customers. At about 80% less of the up start cost of Hydrogen. Methanol is easy to get and is about 2.50 per gallon and they are running a 24 hour shift on about 4 gallons. There not much info on there web site but call them and they can explain how it works.

Plug Power announced on 10/22/07 that it will provide Fuel Cells to one of Wal-Marts distribution centers in United States. This could be the deal that could kick off the mass production of Fuel Cells along with the sale of Hydrogen gas to facilities. There are how-ever some questions that need to be answered before you see more orders from other big corporate companies. What will be the cost per kg of Hydrogen Fuel for the Forklifts? What is the cost of a Fuel Cell at this time? (last time I checked it was around $20,000.00 per unit) What will happen to a Fuel Cell if left in a freezer for an extended period of time? How much is the techinical support to repair these units? What is the warranty on the Plug unit? How will the Maxwell Ultra Capacitors compete with Fuel Cells in the future? Still on wait and see mode. Let Wal-Mart be the ones who pass or fail this technology and absorb the start up cost. They have he most to gain if this is successful at their DC. Compare both systems below. I am putting my money on Wal-Mart to be gaining in the long run with this move.

Fuel Cells, Hydrogen and Hydrogen fill systems "OR"
Batteries (plus extras), Chargers, Battery Rooms, Cranes or Battery extractors, employees to change batteries, electric, watering systems, cleaning systems and the most cost savings, operators waiting for battery changes.

Have you looked at alcohol based fuel cells? They are starting to hit the market now and at 80% less than Hydrogen systems. Check out www.MHDgreenenergy.com they are working on systems for the material handling market.

When will the Fuel Cells hit the market in the U.S.?

Lead going up and fuel cells going down. Look out for Plug Power and Deka/Nuvera. Lead acid batteries will be replaced in forklifts in the near future.

dougster

Plug Power will be one of the biggest producers of Fuel Cells for Industrial lift trucks. Plug Power recently bought out Cellex which make the smaller 24 volt fuel cells for pallet moving trucks. Plug Power announced on 4/18/2007 that it is in the process of trying to buy out General Hydrogen. General Hydrogen presently makes 36 and 48 volt fuel cells for the stand-up/reach trucks and the sit-down (hyster style) lift trucks. This will complete the class 1, 2 and 3 fuel cells. This would make them the fuel cell leader in the United States. The only other company that may have a product out soon could be Deka/Nuvera. They are presently trying to perfect the class 2 (36v) fuel cell which is still being tested at the Deka battery plant. The General Hydrogen fuel cell power packs are presenty being used by the hundreds through-out the United States with little to no problems. The Price however is still a problem. The traditional batteries are cheaper to operate at this time but the pendulum is rapidly swinging to the fuel cells favor.

Plug Power will be one of the biggest producers of Fuel Cells for Industrial lift trucks. Plug Power recently bought out Cellex which make the smaller 24 volt fuel cells for pallet moving trucks. Plug Power announced on 4/18/2007 that it is in the process of trying to buy out General Hydrogen. General Hydrogen presently makes 36 and 48 volt fuel cells for the stand-up/reach trucks and the sit-down (hyster style) lift trucks. This will complete the class 1, 2 and 3 fuel cells. This would make them the fuel cell leader in the United States. The only other company that may have a product out soon could be Deka/Nuvera. They are presently trying to perfect the class 2 (36v) fuel cell which is still being tested at the Deka battery plant. The General Hydrogen fuel cell power packs are presenty being used by the hundreds through-out the United States with little to no problems. The Price however is still a problem. The traditional batteries are cheaper to operate at this time but the pendulum is rapidly swinging to the fuel cells favor.

Plug Power, Plug Power, Plug Power. This will be one of the biggest players of Fuel Cells for Industrial lift trucks. Plug Power recently bought out Cellex which make the smaller 24 volt fuel cells for pallet moving trucks. Plug Power announced on 4/18/2007 that it is in the process of buying out General Hydrogen. General Hydrogen presently makes 36 and 48 volt fuel cells for the stand-up/reach trucks and the sit-down (hyster style) lift trucks. This will complete the class 1, 2 and 3 fuel cells. This will make them the leader in the United States. The only other company that may have a product out soon could be Deka/Nuvera. They are presently trying to perfect the class 2 (36v) fuel cell which is still being tested at the Deka battery plant. The General Hydrogen fuel cell power packs are presenty being used in the hundreds through-out the United States with little to no problems. The Price however is still a problem. The traditional batteries are cheaper to operate at this time but the pendulum is rapidly swinging to the fuel cells favor.

The url is fuelcellsworks(dot)com

CowboysFan needs to get educated. Go to www.fuelcellsworks.com when you get a chance. This will wake you up and bring you up to speed with what's going on with hydrogen technology. There will be other alternatives to oil such as wind power, tide power, current power and of course solar energy. I don't work for a Fuel Cell Company, I just know where the future is going. Also look up DOE (department of energy) web site.

I think Dougee works for a fuel cell producer and is spurring on conversion. Its Funny how they say the fuel cell will reduce our dependency on oil, it is only replacing the battery. Reminds me of the 2YK issue, buy new computers, its just buy new technology now.
No drought it sounds attractive, but it is mostly sizzle and no steak. I predict, that we will see the battery technology improve and stem the tide of this fuel cell frenzy.
We need something to replace OIL, not batteries.

Does anyone have any information on mass production dates for Forklift Fuel Cells? General Hydrogen, Plug Power (cellex), Deca (nuvera) and Hydrogenics presently have them in the field for testing. The future for Forklifts using Fuel Cells is almost here.

Get ready for a huge impact in the industrial truck industry. The economy is getting ready to go Hydrogen. If you snooze you could lose. The Fuel Cells will start being mass produced starting in 2007. Too many un-informed people in the Forklift Industry don't understand the benefits of using Hydrogen powered lift trucks for their application.