Interesting read in IVT, JCB heir Jo Bamford has won a contract to supply hydrogen powered buses in London. They are expected to be on the road from November. Germany announced a 7 billion euro investment into hydrogen and Portugal 6 billion euro investment. No mention of Ammonia anywhere.

i would just like to pointout one thing, i get a lot of stick for my thoughts on hyster yale but yet i can't find any one posting on here to say that the $118.2 Million net loss attributable to share holders from 2015-2019 for the hydrogen fuel cell project and the $110 Million investment from the Hyster Yale cash reservers are good deals. Now were are you all who say i knock Hyster Yale. Why don't you post saying why my opion is not correct.


You make your comments saying i knock hyster Yale and i have given reason for my opinion on them, But you can't comeback with yours supporting what Hyster yale are doing.

To answer you yes most of all the big companies have been through trying times before and come out the other side, but they haven't gone through a global pandemic and a massive change of customer requirements at the same time. Over the next five years the market will change dramatically and what we know today will be totally different tomorrow.

What major companies seem to do is look at problems through blinked eyes they only look at a small part of the problem. This is one of the main reasons why other companies that look things differently seem to do better. Apart from a couple of the Japans OEM's no forklift OEM produces their own engine so in a way they would not look at the problem the same way we did. How we look at the problem was this, we knew diesel would not be suitable for the future so we looked at hydrogen. Now I didn't know anything about hydrogen so quite simply I ask who I know to find out who is the best person to speak to about hydrogen, I got to speak to some one with over 20 years experience on Hydrogen who explained to me all the problems of hydrogen, he also knows a little bit about ammonia. He showed me how we can run a ammonia hybrid power system that would be 100% zero emission this is why we have done this and no one else seems to be looking at it. Now I have said this before all auto manufactures had the same technology as Elon Musk both Toyota and Merced's Benz were early Tesla share holders but yet they chose to ignore this technology to concentrate on what they know. Again in the Mobile phone industry Nokia and Blackbury had the same technology as Apple but Apple used it and went on the change the industry. This has happened time and time again in different industries over the last 10 years. What we are doing is the same in the counter balance forklift industry we are using what we know to make a better product what the customer wants and needs.

Now just to point out about Hyster Yale my opinion is they are losing money on two projects Hydrogen that they lose around $5 million a month on have done for around 5 years and Maximal that was a near bankrupt Chinese forklift manufacture that they paid $100 Million plus $10 Million investment for, now if they would have paid $20 million plus $10 million investment I would not of even mentioned Maximal but they didn't, and hydrogen that all the people I know agree that hydrogen is just to expensive and has to many issues to be an appropriate answer. So be fore you all start saying he has some thing against Hyster I don't they employ quite a large number of people and I would not like to see them loose their jobs.

Now for our truck I think its best just to wait and see what we are to announce this quarter.

well the only problem with your predictions is that's all they are, predictions
I've worked for what i call the big 3 over the years (since 1977) and i can say i've seen all of them go through trying times and they are still going strong leading the markets consistently.
and another thing, if ammonia was a viable source for fuel in anything they would have already explored it and i would have seen some evidence it would be something viable for future power sources, but i have not from them. They did attempt to go down the hydrogen fuel cell market a few years back but that was proven to be extremely expensive and never gained any real traction in the market even after then improvements they've made to it over the years. It's just way to expensive for any consumer to want to do it.
So in effect this is the same scenario with ammonia, it is not in any form attractive to them enough to venture down this road any more than they already have using DEF, due to the cost of doing it from a consumer standpoint.
sure we all want to limit or eliminate bad emissions but until the technology is more affordable? NOBODY will entertain this notion no matter how hard the 'carbon free' initiative is pushed.
windmills and solar cell tech are only as good as their production rates and since they only work when then wind is blowing or the sun is out that limits their capacity and the technology is no where near the capacity to produce anywhere near what we have using the power production we currently use. Everything that has been produced today only provides an AID to our currently used power sources and is nowhere near what we would need to sustain an acceptable operation at an affordable cost.
You can spit out all the figures you want that look good on paper but until it is put into the real world application and tested and proven to work to the standards we all expect based on what we have NOW? it will never catch on in the main stream.
why else do you think the big mfg's havn't already picked this up and ran with it?
think about it ;o)


And to date, you still have to put this truck of yours out there for everyone to actually see in real time, which you STILL have yet to do. Your deceptive behavior about all of this makes your claims very suspect. After the little bit of research i've done on it you are not being straight up with anyone about it. Hiding behind this IP thing only reinforces what i have already presumed about it.

we won't talk about how we run our engines because of our IP. I will say that they run on ammonia and they are 100% zero emission.


Now Hyster Yales is my opinon, Kalmar and Kone Cranes are not small companies they are both major companies in the larger truck market and you might say that they would jointly control over 60% of the container handling market. Yet they see the only way they can servive is to merge.

Now KION predict by 2027 76% of the materials handling market will be electric as against IC engine power. Hyster Yale are spending around $5 million a month on the development of hydrogen fuel cells and beleive the market for Hydrogen fuel cell trucks will be a round 160,000 per year by 2027.

Now if we were to take a 3 ton counter balance forklift, the Lithium iron battery would cost between $4,800 - $6,000. a Hydrogen fuel cell for the same truck would cost around $15,000. You would have very simular drives and other parts.

Now it might be your and every one's else opinion that Hyster Yale are in fact correct and their beleive of a 160,000 units is low. This is OK every one is entitled to their own opinion.You don't even say your opinion on hyster yale.

But on the Fuel cell you will also need a refueling system the cost of a 1 pump refueling system cost around $2.5 Million. then you have the hydrogen storage.


Now there are people on here who say i'm just trolling Hyster yale to these peopel i ask OK this is my opinion do you argree or do you have your own opinion that backs up Hyster Yale.


I can't see one of all the people who critise me on here sharing their own opinion on Hyster Yale, They will just say like triumphrider well hyster Yale have many products and produce thousands of units per year. Now they might have done this in 2019 but in 2022 they won't

Looked up ammonia fueled engines on the internet, Large slow turning marine engines lend themselves to the use of that fuel. Seems like the combustion time required to get to zero emissions plays into the concept. A study in Sweden concluded that smaller faster turning motors have too many issues with complete combustion to allow zero emissions. I do not know what your issues with Hyster /Yale are but you seem to have them in droves. Hyster / yale like a lot of brands have a large product line. Taylor has their niche market like other builders of ready ship of proven concept equipment. Where are your ready to ship proven products?

I can allways back up what i say, Like when i said hyster won't be the only company to be taken over in all this. I was write Cargotec ''Kalmar'' and Kone Cranes are to merge. These are probelby the two biggest players in the global big truck market. Yes i know Taylor would proberbly be the largest big truck OEM in North America but globally they aren't as big as the top four. Kalmar Konecranes Sany and Hyster. This merger will only in my opion speed up the demise of the Hyster big truck brand

The most laughable statement I have seen on this post is- "I don't want to say something that I cant back up"
It's not seemed to bother you up until now!!

You seem to know every spec about this unit except tight steering conditions?, One of the most important parameters to insure the safe operation of a lift truck. Stop taking hits from that crack pipe.

the catalyst you use is proprietary? are you kidding me?
there are only the normal means of known pilot fuels to use so there is nothing proprietary about it.
anyone can do a google search on ammonia fuel engines and find out all the ways they work so there is no good reason not to tell us what you are using unless your not being straight up about it. If there was anything proprietary about it nothing would be posted out there for everyone to see if it were.
your base fuel is still going to be fossil based fuel used as a pilot fuel.

We have a way of catalysing the fuel but as it is part of our intellectual property its not something I can comment on. Sorry I cant be more specific but I do have to protect our IP.

I know some will say I'm hiding behind IP but again its our IP and I just cant say. I try to be open as much as I can


On the Inverters like I have said this is not part of what I do so I don't really understand this part and I don't want to say something that I cant back up

OK , what do you understand about this dream machine, what controls the inverters?Does this unit even exist ?

ok i was under the impression you were using a current IC fueled engine and using DEF so i just assumed it was diesel which i'm still wondering about because after doing some research on ammonia engines no technology has been developed yet for any engine to run solely off ammonia. The technology still requires a catalyst/pilot fuel to aid in the combustion process. Therefore it requires a duel fuel process to make it work. So what is your catalyst? H2? LPG? NG?

this is all down to our technical side but we have a program that run the invertors that controls this. yes we use A/C drive. again this is all controlled by invertors.


I will be honset with you i don't really understand this part of the truck. because i don't need to. I can trust our team on this one. I do remeber that in talks i have had invertors were mentioned

For the Second time, how do you control the drive motors in a real tight turn? I have simplified the question this time, While i am at it are they A/C drive?