What good reading this particular forum is AndyPandy sums up the industry problem really well. Twenty five years ago a new 5000 lb er as it was then was £11000 with a triple and piped to carriage its now £16 - £17 000 with a profit yet the labour rate was £8-9 per hour. The money has gone out of new sales unless its a special. Yet the big boys arnt interested in buying market share by acquiring the smaller independents cos they are usually so far up their own *** they go down the tech squeeze route. Ive heard WILL WRITING PAYS really well if you are under 40 and can listen more than speak.