Discussion:
Propane fuel Trouble shooting/adjustment

I have just purchased a Toyota Mod. 40-5FG25 forklift that has propane fuel. I is a 4Y engine.
This was an "AS IS" out of a lease/rental fleet. It is 100% complete, less the tank and mount.
I did compression cold tests before purchased and it was 190# on all cylinders. Plugs were clean.

I brought it home and put a full tank of propane on a mount I made. Properly positioned with the locater holes down. Removed the tank hose and blow it out before installing a new tank connector.

Cranked over fine and tries to start but runs like it is out of fuel. Will keep firing and miss firing as long as I keep the starter engaged. Once I got it to run "rough" without the starter engaged and about half throttle but it was rough and would pop back into the intake occasionally. Evenually died but did run long enough for the coolant to warm up and I noted the frost on the propane "stuff" melted. Haven't been able to get it to run continiously since.

The only adjustment I have been changing is the large head screw on the side, towards the top of the throttle body. This is a IMPCO model 100 system and everything seems to be hooked up and the vacuum lines, etc. check out ok.

I just don't know anything about propane systems or trouble shooting.

It could be ignition but it has one of those distributors with the coil pack built in. I plan to check it out next to see what type of components it uses.

If anyone could provide me with some direction on trouble shooting and adjusting this propane system, or even a link to a reference manual on this. I would appreciate it.

Thanks
STEVE
  • Posted 8 Sep 2013 03:47
  • Discussion started by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States
Showing items 16 - 29 of 29 results.
Thanks for a lot of good information and possible solutions.
As I stated, initially the engine would try to start, sputtering as long as the starter was cranking. Sometimes popping back through the intakes. Twice I got it to run when the starter was released but wouldn't increase in RPM.

When I discovered that the distributor advance bolt was only hand tight, I tried playing with that and considered the possibility that it might have been removed and reinstalled incorrectly.
As I played with the timing adjustment, I found I was no longer getting any attempt to start. I checked and I was getting a weak spark when I pulled a plug wire and connected a spare plug/grounded. Reset the distributor to #1 TDC (verified) top of compression stroke by observing valves). Varied timing within range, etc.. Still no start attempt at all. Not even a back fire.
This engine has a solid state distributor. with the coil inside the distributor (under the dist. cap), reluctor and ignition module under the cap as well. Cap is in good condition and appears as new, wires are fine also and in proper order. Plugs are as new and are resistor type (I think, they have an R in the number?)

I'm also wondering if there could be a problem now in the Mixer, as a result of the back fireing thru the intake valves, previously. The reason I raise this point, is, when I remove the LP gas line from the side of the mixer body and crank the engine over, I feel absolutely no vacuum even when I open the throttle. Is there something that could have been damaged or ruptured due the popping back thru the intake part of the system??

Steve
  • Posted 11 Sep 2013 01:23
  • Reply by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States
OK- as far as the ignition- spark should be bright blue & jump at least 1/4" gap at the spark plug end.

You are correct that the LPG system consists of a lock-off valve, regulator & mixer.

The lock-off valve (either electric or vacuum activated) is self explanatory. If electric- make sure it flows fuel when given 12 Volts. These can gum up & stick in the off position- flowing no fuel. If vacuum- make sure flows fuel when given a vacuum source. This style goes bad when the o-ring which seals the activation pin goes bad, feeding LPG through the vacuum feed line, making the air/fuel ratio overly rich,no matter how you adjust the fuel mixture.

The regulator- takes liquid fuel at a maximum of 312 lbs, lowers the pressure to around 6 lbs, allows the LPG to "boil" (which converts the fuel from a liquid to a gas), and also acts as a secondary fuel shut-off- allowing fuel to flow only when a vacuum is sensed through the fuel delivery line. These can gum up, not allowing fuel to flow when the unit is cold. The symptom of this is the engine will start (usually a hard start), & the engine will only idle. If you give the gas pedal any movement, the engine will starve for fuel & stall. If the engine is allowed to run long enough, this symptom will go away & the engine will run normally. As L1ftmech stated, they can also fail to regulate the fuel, sending much higher fuel pressure to the mixer than the mixer can handle. Symptoms of this are icing of regulator, usually will only run at higher RPMS (will flood & stall at idle), & extreme burnt smell of LPG in the exhaust.

The mixer- takes in vapor fuel, mixes this fuel with incoming air, & feeds this mixture to the engine. It also acts as the third fuel shut-off- allowing fuel to flow only when a vacuum is sensed through the throat of the mixer. These fail because the main diaphragm becomes stuck to the fuel outlet in the throat of the mixer. Engine backfires can also rupture the body of the diaphragm.

As you can see- engine vacuum is the key to this system working- no fuel will flow without it.

Symptoms of this type of fuel system are usually pretty straight forward. If you find an issue with any part of the system I would recommend that the entire system be re-done. As EdT stated, a engine tune up would be a good idea too.
  • Posted 11 Sep 2013 00:26
  • Modified 11 Sep 2013 00:46 by poster
  • Reply by bbforks
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
Hi
Have you checked for an air lock in the cooling system at the vaporiser?
This can cause freezing.....
  • Posted 10 Sep 2013 17:21
  • Reply by Newspanner
  • South west, United Kingdom
Newspanner at gmail dot com
Hmm!
I assume you are talking about the larger fuel supply hose (about 1/2") going from the vaporizer over to the side of the mixer?

I took that off at the connection elbow, at the mixer and I couldn't feel any vacuum "draw" at all while cranking the engine over. However, the throttle might have been at idle during this test. I'll go back and check this again.

On the distributor, I have verified that there is spark, although weak, while cranking. I determined number one cap terminal from a marking on the cap. Removed number one plug and rolled engine over with wrench til timing mark is at TDC and verified, with a screw driver thru spark plug hole, that #1 piston is at top of stroke. (I was going to take valve cover off to confirm this is the top of the compression, not the exhaust stroke, but the rigid water lines have to be removed to get that off. )
This distributor is solid state with the coil built in and under the cap. Parts house can only get a complete distributor, replacement reluctor and modules not being shown. Vacuum advance works ok. Cap and wire are in good condition. To verify spark, I put a plug into the #1 wire and grounded it while cranking. Weak spark but still there.

I'm going to go back and take compression readings again today to see if I'm still getting the 190# that I got before I purchased this fork lift.

Steve
  • Posted 9 Sep 2013 23:33
  • Reply by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States
this is normal Steve, it requires vac on that hose to allow fuel to flow. no vac and no fuel is correct and what you wanted to see.
I would offer that the correct path would be to start at the beginning and confirm that #1 spark plug is firing when the crankshaft is just before tdc by looking in the distributor with the cap off and confirm the rotor location in relation to the mark on the crankshaft pulley. and then confirm or do a complete tune-up
  • Posted 9 Sep 2013 20:09
  • Reply by edward_t
  • South Carolina, United States
"it's not rocket surgery"
Looks like the problem is in the vaporizer since I have tested the vacuum lock out assembly and it releases liquid over through the inter connecting line each time I crank the engine over.
However, when I remove the gas line from the vaporizer outlet, to the mixer (carb) throttle assembly, I get absolutly nothing now.
Originally, I was getting some flow because I it did fire and run a little. Now, I get nothing.

Might be time to order a rebuild kit.

I did find some operating description online with parts break down. Just in case the kit doesn't provide any.

Thanks

Steve
  • Posted 9 Sep 2013 07:48
  • Reply by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States
Hi first you shouldn't be getting any frosting on components at all this usually points to either a leak of if its the vaporiser a cooling fault. First thing to check is that coolant is getting too and passing through the vaporiser if it isn't the vaporiser will frost over then freeze up if this is happening this will give the problem you have ive had water pump impellors fail that give this fault. I don't know if you can buy kits over there for the J type impco but if you do stip it there is a strip valve with a rubber seal in the middle these are prone to failure and you wont get it to start if it is they fail due to the body wearing where poppet that works on the hp diaphragm wears. My advice if you cant get a repair kit would be to fit an imcpo k type to it.
  • Posted 9 Sep 2013 04:51
  • Reply by lifter01
  • West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Steve with known fuel in the lines, take the large LPG hose going from regulator/vaporizer to mixer off the mixer. With fuel shut off or disconnected from tank, spin engine over. If fuel comes out then you have a vaporizer that needs replaced. The frost you are concerned of is evap of LPG. Check coolant level also. If unit has vaccum lockoff then check for LPG coming out of vacuum line on lockoff.
  • Posted 9 Sep 2013 04:28
  • Reply by RCAV8TOR
  • Alabama, United States
What i used to do all day now takes me all day to do.
Thanks for that tip. I did try that and since the tank valve seems to have a leak thru, even when turned off, I think I still have pressure until I disconnect the tank coupling. Something I will deal with when I refill the next time.

Now, onto the LP gas fuel system.
From the quick research on Google, it seems the be made up with a converter, mixer and the carburetor.
If my problem is flooding, then where should I start? Hmmm!
I would assume the liquid fuel would be converted to gas through evaporation in the converter and that process would account for the frost I observed on that case, since the coolant temp wasn't yet high enough to assist in that process.
Not sure what the Mixer does??

As I search ebay, I see there are parts kits for the carboretor but nothing for the mixer or converter. I don't see any adjustments on either of the latter. The carburetor only has an Idle adjustment. Three is some kind of adjustment in the lower carburetor mount plate that looks like it not be "field serviceable" (seal wired).

I'm going to go back to google and search for other trouble shooting help.

Still hoping someone here will have some "Sage" advice?

Thanks
Steve
  • Posted 9 Sep 2013 01:41
  • Reply by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States
Your statement about "frost on the propane stuff" makes me think that the J-model fuel regulator (what the coolant hoses run to) is leaking liquid propane into the intake. What you think is acting like it's out of fuel is in reality probably "over-fueling". I have always found that a simple way to test this is to shut off the supply valve on the propane cylinder and see if the engine begins to run better as the fuel in the hose is consumed.
If the condition is due to over fueling, the engine may seem to run "about right" just before it uses up all the fuel in the hose and dies.
  • Posted 8 Sep 2013 09:44
  • Reply by L1ftmech
  • Tennessee, United States
I just checked and verified that the plug wires are correct.

Now, I have to verify that the last person to have the distributor out, put it in correctly.

Steve
  • Posted 8 Sep 2013 05:11
  • Reply by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States
And yes the firing order is 1-3-4-2
  • Posted 8 Sep 2013 04:55
  • Reply by kevin_t
  • Pennsylvania, United States
Have an email to post in your profile has to be as mine is as this site strips out readable addresses
  • Posted 8 Sep 2013 04:49
  • Reply by kevin_t
  • Pennsylvania, United States
I just checked the distributor and the mount/adjusting bolt was loose.
Now I have reservation and think this problem is timing or in the ignition system. I tried varying the distributor within the adjustment range, but not positive results. Then I began to wonder about the plug wires and realized I don't know the firing order of this 4Y engine. Toyota 4 cylinders have had of 1342 or older Corona's were 1243.
I checked for the firing order on the engine but didn't see it on the manifold.

Since the distributor mount bolt was loose, I suspect the whole unit might have been removed and re-installed. Hmmm, could be of a tooth when re-installed. Another possibility.

Without a manual, I'm going to have to play around with this one.

Steve
  • Posted 8 Sep 2013 04:39
  • Reply by OleSteve
  • Washington, United States

Post your Reply

Forkliftaction.com accepts no responsibility for forum content and requires forum participants to adhere to the rules. Click here for more information.

Having trouble using the Discussion Forums? Contact us for help.

Global Industry News
edition #1230 - 15 May 2025
It’s been a big week of news with Jungheinrich’s financial reports for Q1 released at the same time it launched its new Stategy2030+, its strategic framework for the next five years (see story)... Continue reading
Upcoming in the editorial calendar
UN Forklift FBRP15NQZ2
HANGZHOU, Zhejiang, China
New - Sale
Hangcha CPYD32XW71F-C
Flesherton, Ontario, Canada
New - Sale
Fact of the week
Architect Gustave Eiffel originally submitted his design for the Eiffel Tower to Barcelona but the city rejected it for aesthetic reasons. As we know, he had more success in Paris, however, his plan was far from popular at the time.

Showcased in the Virtual Expo

Global Industry News
edition #1230 - 15 May 2025
It’s been a big week of news with Jungheinrich’s financial reports for Q1 released at the same time it launched its new Stategy2030+, its strategic framework for the next five years (see story)... Continue reading
Fact of the week
Architect Gustave Eiffel originally submitted his design for the Eiffel Tower to Barcelona but the city rejected it for aesthetic reasons. As we know, he had more success in Paris, however, his plan was far from popular at the time.