I don't know wether to laugh or cry, possibly cry with laughter..now your self proclaimed deadline is here you are saying " and just for the record what I ment was our technology. Would be revealed in April" so no super truck will be seen sat on its wheels powered by its ammonia hybrid power plant lifting max weight 40' containers 6 high, ok w ello I am a little disappointed.
"And just for the record" you said "are I know because wagon drivers are smarter than forklift drivers" (your typos not mine)
I said that the skills required to safely transport, handle and refuel trucks with ammonia were skills not held by lift truck engineers or operators. Nowhere did I say, imply or suggest that "these people would not be able to learn new skills needed" those are your words not mine!
Yes indeed I could have said "at the moment forklift engineers and forklift operators would need retraining to be able to handle the ammonia in a safe manner" but then I didn't need to it was you who should have sad it rather than saying "wagon drivers are smarter than lift truck drivers"!!!!
It is hardly surprising that the people developing your system, (I assume you will have the ip), have encouraged you to go the ammonia route as you are funding their r&d! Any as always loads of "probably", "some" etc in their to give you an escape route.
You don't sit, or haven't admitted sitting, on the HY board so you don't know the why's and where forms of HY business, short or long term. I am not going to speculate.

Im not Trolling hyster maximal, i believe Hyster will have to make a massive wright down in assets some time in the Next couple of Years.

Now what you are implying is that hyster is to Big to fail.Now i bet you would of said the same about Nokia or Blackbury or even Blockbusters.


Now as you mentioned the Hyster results Nuvera had a loss of $35.2 Million EBITDA in 2018 and have lost Money ever since 2014. Hyster Yale have seen their EBITDA Drop each year from 2014 - 2018 from $182 Million to $94 Million. Now for a company thats doing sow well that's great. Now even if they can keep at say $100 Million the wright down will take over three years to put Hyster Yale back in some type of profitable EBITDA.


Now i believe That Hyster Yale will be a take over target for a Chinese company like Hangcha or Sany in the next couple of years and they will get Hyster Yale at a knock down price.


Now as you mention i'm just trolling Hyster Yale.


And just for the record what i ment was our technology would be revealed in April

As you have mentioned we are just at the start of our Journey , but i would like to say Sany around 10 Years ago were at the start of their Journey in Container handling , now they are the top producer of Reach Stackers in the world.

You can come a long way in a short space of time.

In 2016 Hyster-Yale had $2,569.7 million (U.S.) in revenue. They had an operating budget of $34.9 million (U.S.); net income of $42.8 million (U.S.); Total Assets of $1,287.1 million (U.S.) and Total Equity of $463.8 million (U.S.) Not to mention the 6500 people they employ.

So tell me, why with a business like that, would I (or anyone) take the word of a forum troll that their business plan or investments are not correct?

This on top of the fact, that you told all of us you would have your truck ready to go THIS MONTH, but in your last post you stated "The people that are developing our system...." Which clearly means you are in development STILL.

So far, thru all of your trolling of Hyster, Maximal, Diesel forklifts, battery technology you have offered NOTHING to compete with them.

So again, why would I doubt the strategy of a company like Hyster-Yale because of a post of someone who has done nothing more than prove he has a computer and an internet connection?

The people that are developing our system will probably be as clever as the people that designed the Appollo system. These people are some of the best people in the world that understand Ammonia and how Ammonia works. To be totally honest they are probably some of the best people that understand Hydrogen fuel cell as well. That's why they advised us not to go down the hydrogen route.

As for my comments on forktruck drivers and forklift engineers. To remind you of what you said in your post. Other luminaries on this thread have commented on the additional skills and requirements necessary to keep ammonia plants SAFE and transport it safely, skills not held by lift truck engineers or operators who may complete refuelling activities. To me this suggested that these people would not be able to learn new skills needed.

What you could of said is that at the moment forklift engineers and forklift operators would need re training to be able to handle the ammonia in a safe manner.
Chris K just to simplify the question. would you pay $100 million and invest a further $10 million in a Chinese forklift manufacture who produce in one year around three weeks production of one of the big Chinses manufactures like Heli , and has no real IP

Give me strength....of course I do not know the detail of your ammonia hybrid fuel system because you haven't launched your truck. Anything that has been built has the potential for failure. Think back to the solid rocket booster that failed in the Apollo program, designed and built by I would suspect much cleverer people than you and I, but history shows it failed. Your system will have the potential to fail. Insurance rates are based on history and risk assessment, if later experience shows that premiums do not cover reimbursements of claims and or conflict with prior conclusions on risk, the rates will go up. Your comments re truck drivers and lift truck drivers is an insulting generalisation and you should withdraw it immediately.

1. Your first "question" isn't even a question. Even trying to wade through a limited grasp of the English language, I cannot determine what you are actually trying to ask.

2. I think Hydrogen has the potential to power more equipment in the future. The issue isn't so much the fuel system itself, but the infrastructure to support said system. It is same reason purely electric automobiles have not taken off like they should. I do however, believe Hydrogen stands a much better chance than Ammonia does. You should use Hydrogen as an example, it has been in the material handling market for a long time, and still has yet to gain a firm foothold in anything but large warehouse fleets.

tick tock, tick tock, only 18 more days left in April - will this "mystical" forklift appear? as previously stated on this forum by Mr. Wizard and Company (aka the Exalted one)? I think someone in Rosemary's Baby had the same handle.
I'm going to check with Las Vegas and see what the odds are.
In the meantime this ammonia discussion offers some entertainment while the "launch" is being prepared - some where, at some time, at some place and planned by WE.

Well DonkeyPunch, so are you saying our Ammonia fuel system will have some tipe of failure and we don't have any safety measures in place just in case on the very very unlikely event of a failure in the system. So you know how our system works that's great. What you were implying was that this system will fail and there is no safety system in place and all the insurance companies will hike up rates. Now if this is the case then why haven't they already done this to the companies that transport our use ammonia already. Are I Know because wagon drivers are smarter than forklift drivers. In this case why haven't we seen massive explosions from refilling Hydrogen. Hydrogen is highly explosive and these hydrogen trucks must have a hydrogen leak in their system. The ammonia we use is produced with renewable energy and can even be produced on site so there is no environmental cost just 100% zero emission

You see you don't know our system or who has been working on this and what experience they have or anything. You just assume there will be a failure or a leak in refuelling because forklift drivers or even forklift engineers can't have additional skills. Well that's a vote of confidence in the people that drive and fix forklifts.


ChrisK , I don't have an issue with Hyster, Now I'm going to ask you two very simple questions. That I can probably answer now. You wont answer either of these questions. Lets make it easier for you. You can just say yes or no.

1 Do you believe Maximal that manufacture in one year the same amount of trucks as Heli will produce in just three weeks. and has no real IP is worth 110 Million Dollars, purchase price and investment.

2 that hydrogen will power all types of materials handling equipment , cars, vans, trucks and all types of construction machinery in the future.

Two very simple questions.

What is your issue with Hyster? Is it the fact that they produce trucks while you are STILL talking about your super machine?

Well Exalt, I re read my post several times and no where said or implied that ammonia was transported without insurance, so no need to inform the authorities. Other luminaries on this thread have commented on the additional skills and requirements necessary to keep ammonia plants SAFE and transport it safely, skills not held by lift truck engineers or operators who may complete refuelling activities. I can not invisage a zero accidents scenario....after the first accident I foresee uk hse imposing significant controls and insurance rate hikes. Likewise appropriate authorities in other countries. If the truck ever does make an appearance overall you need to look at the overall environmental cost... it may or may not be zero tailpipe emissions but what is the environmental cost of ammonia production and transport??

Exhaust; Have you ever considered running for political office here in the US. You would fit right in.

When ammonia is used in HVAC it is controlled by licensed engineers. When transported by road its done by cdl drivers with additional certifications.
Forklifts on the other hand are usually driven by minimum wage, minimum care employees.....

Lifter01 being from West Yorkshire im sure you will be aware of a little place called Halifax. In Halifax down by the Train station is Nestle. Now Nestle use ammonia and as you have pointed out ammonia leaks and kills people, so I have asked some one I know who works at Nestle about ammonia leaks and deaths. His reply was he has work at Nestle for over ten years and doesn't know of any leaks or any being killed from leaking ammonia. He did say there is a safety procedure to follow but he has never known it be used.

Well Donkeypunch are you saying that all the millions of tons of ammonia shipped by road, rail sea or pipeline and all the companies that use ammonia are doing so with out insurance. Has any one told the authorities about this.

Now there are more people killed per week mining Cobalt a main part of Lithium iron batteries in The Democratic Republic of the Congo. Than are Killed by Ammonia in a year. Ammonia is perfect OK if used correctly. Now we have cleared this up lets look at three 100% Zero emission options at 8,000kg

Firstly Electric lead acid average KWH per Hour usage 19.2 average battery size KWH 100 average range 5 hour 20 min recharge time 8 hours.

Secondly Electric Lithium iron average KWH per hour usage 19.2 average battery size 120 KWH average range 6 hour 25 min average recharge time with 30KWH charger 4 Hour.

Thirdly Ammonia Hybrid KWH per hour usage 19.2 average battery size Nickel Zinc 30 KWH and 70 Kw engine average range 20 hour average refuel time 10 min


John J I think you will find there are still two blackbirds in operation in the USA


Triurphrider I think you need a new slide rule. there is one truck @ 10,000kg that's service weight is less than 13,000kg

Lol exalt you really don't have a clue do you?? I have first hand experience of ammonia freezer plants and know the issues you can have with even the smallest ammonia leak, yes petrol and diesel fumes can be harmful but ammonia isn't just harmful it's deadly, why do you think companies in the U.K. that have ammonia on site have to have a separate alarm system to warn of a leak?? Why do you think the fire brigade after a leak won't let anybody back onsite until an expert has proclaimed the area safe?? Because ammonia can and will kill that's why with petrol your more likely to be killed by a fire not the fumes.
As I said most freezer chiller suppliers are now moving away from ammonia to co2 because it's a safer system.
By the way exalt where is this super truck it's well into April yet and we've not seen a thing of it

After overheating and nearly melting my slide rule, yes a slide rule, I just not see how your specs will work. and by the way. the SR 71 was built with a slide rule. On of my instructors at Lockheed on the project and said Kelly Johnson would nor allow the use of computers except on just a couple of areas on the bird. Turned out the slide rule was faster in most applications than lengthy programming required at the time

Can't see much at the moment other than unsubstantiated claims and a few graphics. I too suffered from only slight exposure to ammonia when a reprographic machine went wrong in the next room and I was volunteered to shut it down. Massive headache, puking and had to be taken home. Yeah, anything can be dangerous so using phraseology used by someone in the great lithium battery debate on this site, "lithium batteries will catch fire", "ammonia hybrid fuel systems will leak or fail". I wonder how customers and insurance companies will cope with that.

There is very informant website showing the greatness of the world beating new era of forklifts. www dot evze dot me

Remember you seen it here first.

Going slightly off topic, but in Australia, they have found a way to transport hydrogen safely (apparently) and that is storing and shipping it in ammonia, then it is cracked and purified back into hydrogen. video on youtube if anyone interested. www youtube
com/watch?v=-JYD5Sm1zAc (add dots where the spaces are)

exhalt,
the Blackbird (aka SR71) was retired in 1998 and used a special blend of JP-7 fuel - that cost 3 times more than conventional fuel. It may have flown over California and parts of the rest of the US. But not in the last 21 years.

You said
"Well just a point the Backbird plane is powered by ammonia and it will fly over California as well as the rest of the USA so yes ammonia will really fly in all the USA."