Looks like Raymond isn't too happy about the use of Hydrogen at this time. There is no exitement with their lastest news release. If Ultra-capacitors keeps improving with equal battery weight and regeneration systems, you may never see mass numbers of Hydrogen powered forklifts. Here is Raymonds report on their tests from this weeks forkliftaction news;

"Raymond says refuelling the fuel cell forklift consumes a few minutes compared to the 20 minutes needed to remove and replace a battery from the same forklift model. However, the battery in electric forklifts contributes to the counterweight. Raymond says extra weight must be added to the fuel cell unit and the weight distributed within the fuel cell system so the centre of the gravity is the same as that of the battery. "

Raymond is also testing:
"Hydrogen consumption and frequency of refuelling,
Operation of the hydrogen infrastructure and refuelling,
Reliability, maintenance and repairability of the fuel cell systems, and Voltage delivered and how it compares with specifications for all the electrical components and options on a forklift.
Steve Medwin, Raymond's advanced research manager, says the forklift manufacturer will disclose further results of the research when they become available."

Hydrogen FUEL CELL manufacturers for forklifts are increasing their output. Keep an eye on Nuvera-Deka, Plug Power and GNB. BOC, Air Products and Nuvera-Deka will provide the Hydrogen. Forget the Mom and Pop warehouses. This is mainly for big warehouse users with 50 or more lift trucks. Mass production will make them more affordable with a bigger ROI.

i think yes i agree with you.but in my country (indonesia) its a difficult to expand a liquid natural gas?

Any one have suggest?

I had called them 866 907 5994 they are the distribution arm for the Oorja fuel cell. They have been in the material handling business for over 25 years. They can answer all your questions.

Does anyone have any information on MHD Green? This is an alcohol Fuel Cell Company.

The use of Nuclear heat can produce cheap H2. The new technology that is being developed would use heat from nuclear reactors in a thermochemical process to decompose water into its basic components of oxygen and hydrogen. The water splitting is done using a copper-chlorine cycle. Thermochemical plants located near nuclear facilties that use the spent heat from the nuclear plants can generate hydrogen fuel cheap. We should also look into tapping into the methane under the solar ice caps before it is released into the atmosphere. Methane is 10 times worst than Co2 gases that contribute to global warming. I am still sticking with H2, the #1 element on Earth (the fragile planet).

Hydrogen is coming but I can recall people talking about flying car and they are not here. Looking at any alternative fuel is going to be the way to get the fuel cells out in the market. Going back to using Methanol the project that Cellex tried Methanol they where using a technology called reforming. The technology had its problems but it worked. Now MHD Green is using a new technology direct methanol fuel cell or DMFCs. This address all the problems Cellex was having before they jumped to Hydrogen. I still think Hydrogen is going to happen but with the high costs to get it and to store it is going to be awhile before it has an impact in in the forklift market when products like methanol can be used NOW and at about 80% less cost than Hydrogen.

Fossil Fuels will be used in most Hydrogen producing plants. The good thing about producing Hydrogen fuel is that it will be clean after it is made. The plants that produce H2 will have scrubbers to collect at least 90% of the Co2 gases before it goes into the atmosphere. Presently you have millions of transportation vehicles, trains, planes, boats, etc, emitting tons of Co2 that help create the Global Warming effect. You will see other technogies that won't require the use of fossil fuels. Hammerfest Energi is presently working on some cool stuff.

Quote: "Is it the American government who see the development of Hydrogen for the lift truck industry as an interm step toward Hydrogen taking over from oil?"

The only reason this administration has shown any interest in hydrogen is that they realized that the hydrogen would most likely be created through the use of fossil fuels (something that the average Joe doesn't know). Therefore they can give the appearance of getting away from fossil fuels without actually getting away from fossil fuels.
I think you're probably being a little paranoid, but a little paranoia isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Lead Acid Batteries are on their way out at a slow pace. There are several reasons the Lead Acid Batteries should be phased out. Lead mining is very dangerous and some plants are being closed without new ones being reopened (mostly health reasons). Most companies are polluting the water supplies with contaminates that are washed from the tops of the Lead Acid Batteries and the worst is the Lead contamination to the human health when working on Lead acid batteries. OSHA (part of the American Government) monitors the safety of battery repair shops. The lead from the drill work has been known to enter the body and creates many problems to the internal organs. Hepa vacuums must be used during repairs. Lead Paint has been a recent problem with toys from China. Lead is just not healthy and the governments of all countries have been easy on the lead acid battery laws for a long time because there is no other infrastructure for powering electric trucks at this time. Hydrogen Fuel Cell is the way to go in the near future and complete ultra-capacitors (maxwell) after that.

Does anyone wonder why the price of lead has sky rocketed over the past few years? It has jumped from $.30/lb to $1.80. That means a 2,000 lb lead acid battery's raw material went from $600 to $3600. My conspiracy theory is that this is an intentional market manipulation to make Hydrogen fuel cells more economically competitive. (Is it the American government who see the development of Hydrogen for the lift truck industry as an interm step toward Hydrogen taking over from oil?)

Cellex used Methanol during thier testing process several years ago. It was working very well but there seem to be some issues that were well documented. They slowly converted into Hydrogen fuel cells and they were recently bought out by Plug Power. Plug Power also bought out General Hydrogen. Hydrogen is the future energy source and is the #1 element available to us on this fragile Earth. Look for a Hydrogen splitting machine in the future. This will remove Hydrogen from tap water and purify it at the same time. It is being done in labs at this time at a high cost and should have some cheaper results soon. Unless your big oil companies step in and buy the rights to produce this equipment. "go to fuelcellsworks dot com for more info"

Why Hydrogen fuel cells? MHD Green Energy has a Methanol fuel cell that they have been testting for two year at some very big customers. At about 80% less of the up start cost of Hydrogen. Methanol is easy to get and is about 2.50 per gallon and they are running a 24 hour shift on about 4 gallons. There not much info on there web site but call them and they can explain how it works.

Plug Power announced on 10/22/07 that it will provide Fuel Cells to one of Wal-Marts distribution centers in United States. This could be the deal that could kick off the mass production of Fuel Cells along with the sale of Hydrogen gas to facilities. There are how-ever some questions that need to be answered before you see more orders from other big corporate companies. What will be the cost per kg of Hydrogen Fuel for the Forklifts? What is the cost of a Fuel Cell at this time? (last time I checked it was around $20,000.00 per unit) What will happen to a Fuel Cell if left in a freezer for an extended period of time? How much is the techinical support to repair these units? What is the warranty on the Plug unit? How will the Maxwell Ultra Capacitors compete with Fuel Cells in the future? Still on wait and see mode. Let Wal-Mart be the ones who pass or fail this technology and absorb the start up cost. They have he most to gain if this is successful at their DC. Compare both systems below. I am putting my money on Wal-Mart to be gaining in the long run with this move.

Fuel Cells, Hydrogen and Hydrogen fill systems "OR"
Batteries (plus extras), Chargers, Battery Rooms, Cranes or Battery extractors, employees to change batteries, electric, watering systems, cleaning systems and the most cost savings, operators waiting for battery changes.

Have you looked at alcohol based fuel cells? They are starting to hit the market now and at 80% less than Hydrogen systems. Check out www.MHDgreenenergy.com they are working on systems for the material handling market.