i agree with you on how the money is looked at
but not all customers work with a large scale model like that

and at the end of the day, if youre a mom and pop business or a corporate giant
if youre pssing money away regarless on what it is, youre gonna decrease your overall profitability

the smaller business would be effected more than a larger company which could afford to absorb the higher costs either way (through write offs etc)

and at least with a leased fleet that you roll over every 3 years you can figure what your equipment costs will always be pretty accurately
when u run old machines its a real craps shoot

electec123, says "pretty sure pay is measured in $$$".
I greatly disagree, $$$ is part of what we work for, but only part, we work for respect. without $$$ there is no respect, but I am willing to bet you have painted far more rooms for your families respect than for $$$.
Respect is measured in the eyes of the beholder.

Batman, I heard a good saying " no one can tell who has lost their swimming trunks until the tide goes out, but once the tide goes out, you can easily see who has lost their pants", and a recession like this is the $$$ tide going out.

JustinM, what you are describing is not "loosing money" it is spending it unwisely in your opinion, but you may not know all the facts. Capital spending (buying a new unit) and operational spending (maintaining the units you have) often come from 2 different "pots of money" and are accounted for differently, and have different motivations (maybe they are waiting for a tax break to be able to depreciate the cost of a new unit, but can spend money to fix what they have for what seems to be the same money).
Money spent badly is not exactly the same as money lost. Someone else still got the money, and it is still in circulation.

all areas that waste money are the problem
i think companies waste the most money when theyre trying to save it
like a guy who has you out 3 times a week for 4 hours at a time
cause he runs his machines 15 hours straight, **** to the walls
then says "i cant afford a new machine right now"
yet his repair bills are triple what he would pay for a full maint lease

and its even at the lower levels that waste is a problem

i tell operators about keeping their floors swept
i like to tell them that if i wasnt here 3 times a month replacing load wheels at 350$ a set, due to plastic wrap and stalling the wheels out on broken pallet pieces, there would be a whole lot more money for raises, etc
i explain that to operator and manager
so
if they dont listen theres no way they can get mad at me cause they understand whats the root cause of the issue
lack of brooms
all those load wheels add up

on our side of things
it seems to be lack of brains

as far as admonishing people
hells yea
one time (at my old job, 1 of way too many examples)
we had a new kid he was in for a month or two at this point

he goes to an old mitsu 4g52 no start
replaces alternator, battery
next day no start again
he goes back
replaces a starter
next day same thing goes back again
spends the whole day there and replaces just about everything electronic you could think of including the ignitor

then i get the call at 4pm to go in there and "help"
i get ther hes gone, went home
great

so i try to start, its slugging barely cranking
voltage drop across the b+ cable shows 11 volts while trying to crank
replace cable
starts like new
total time 15 minutes
no call back up until i quit

so i get the kid in the shop
i ask "why did you replace the alternator"
he said "it tested bad"
silly me asks"what did your meter tell you when you tested it key off vs cranking"
smart guys says boldly "i dont have a meter, i dont need one to test an alternator"
silly me again asks "how do you test electronic circuits without a meter?"
"well for the alternator, i start the machine and pull both cables off the battery while its running, if it stalls its bad, (furthermore) ill test a Lamborghini that way"
i tell him "if i had a lambo youd be the last mechanic on earth to touch it"
then i told him if he wanted to do this as a job
he needed the right tools and to know how to use them properly
i told him too i cant think of a more important tool than a good multimeter in my toolbox
needless to say he didnt listen and only lasted a few more (ugh) months

every time i watched him punch in i just saw my raises and bonuses fly right out the fckin window (remember to read my posts with a new york accent lol)

multiply that by the 20million business in this country and you start to see the problem IMO of course

duodeluxe,
I completely agree. A bad economy makes everyone shape up. Unfortunately, good people will lose their jobs during this correction but I think there are many people who have been grossly overpaid due to the tight labor markets. This slow down should correct that and should bring in newer and better talent.

A capitalist economy is built on recessions and corrections. This is what it is all about. Survive the corrections and come out much stronger on the other side.

If our government keeps printing money and bailing out businesses with bad business models this recession will not be the worst we live through. Give it about 5 or 6 years and see what happens.

pretty sure pay is measured in $$$

duodeluxe,
I totally agree with your statements. There are 3 things an emplyee can always do:
1. Accept the job/company for what it is - like they did on the day they accepted the job.
2. Work to improve it - and do it in a constructive & proffessional way. This is the most fun part of any position.
3. Can't handle items 1 & 2 - find the nearest EXIT sign & leave - remember the grass that looks greener from a far is not always greener once your are there.

Most companies pay what an employee is worth (how they are a positive benefit the company) & pay is not always measured in $$$.

It's funny how these discussions morph into something that is totally unrelated to the original subject.
In New Hampshire, the unemployment rate is under 5% which is a lot less than the rest of the country but the economy still stinks. Everyone that I speak to agrees that since Thanksgiving business has taken a nose dive.
There are 2 things that I dislike most about a bad economy, one is that all of the snake oil merchants come out of hibernation- like the people selling rebuilt batteries and two, dealers start selling off their rental fleets and depress the value of all other trucks on the market.
It seems that most people that engage in this forum are from the non management side of the aisle but two good things about a bad economy are that good people become available which makes some current, low productivity employees uncomfortable and makes it easier to hold their feet to the fire because they are afraid of not being able to find another job if they lose theirs.
As far as the benefits Crown offers, all that I would add is try running your own company you will soon find out that a fair amount of employees (way too many) absolutely, positively believe in their heart of hearts that they always have the best interests of the comapany in mind when in reality their behavior and decisions make it impossible to profit from their employment. I haven't found too many people that beleive it, but it costs the rest of the good employees and management and owners big time. How many of you have taken a bad apple aside and admonished them or is that strictlly management's responsibility?

at my old job (not crown)
we had to work a year with no vaca before we got a week
then after that 1 year = 1 week
3 years = 2 weeks
10 years = 3 weeks

every quarter you got a sick day

i should have quit way sooner than i did

I only bash crown technology and the benefits/pay. Hitting top pay after 10-15 years is a little to slow for me. I can honestly say with the exception of gene hoffman, the people i meet at crown we some of the most genuine I have met to date. They we usually always willing to answer questions and explain things without trying to make you feel inferior. Associated/ Raymond was the exact opposite. With the exception of a few people, everyone their is out to stab each other in the back, and generally try to use whatever they can to some how advance past you. Since their is no trackers on the vans, its a start as late as your can and leave as early as you can, bill as much as you can company. The lead I was under would normally bill 14hrs for the company in a 8hr day, put 12 for his time card and leave after around 7-8. This would just totally **** me off, especially as he would purposely hold work or maintenances for himself when the guys in his territory were low on work to make sure he billed enough overtime to get his 80k a year.

deleted

I work for Crown right now. I have read many of your posts and you seem to be going out of your way to bash Crown. That's OK. I usually go on this site because there is usually good insight of what is going on in our industry, not to get into **** contests. But I will try to set the record straight.

Our technicians are working a minimum of 40 hours a week. No lay offs, no 32 hour weeks and are working Saturdays. The reason we are able to do this is because we are going after our competitors service business and have had some good success doing so!

As far as vacations go, I won't disagree with earning your vacation w/ Crown is tuff! But I know some competitors who are requiring their employees to take vacations because of the economy and business being slow. I'm sure many of them didn't want to take that time off.

Not to mention, if they are only working 32 hours a week it seems they just got a lot more days off. I wonder how that helps them when paying their bills???

do you work at crown right now? I highly doubt that they they have increased work to 65hrs a week. When I worked there 2 years ago, they had outlawed overtime both road and shop. Had not heard it had gotten any better since then, only worse. Not sure how crown keeps and business or techs. I mean come on after six month you get 18hrs of vacation that you have to take in 4 hr increments.

D

does this increase in "service hours" mean there is someone answering the phones at Crown Company stores for more hours?, or does it mean that in spite of having their hourly rate of pay decreased, Crown company store Techs now get 65 hours each week (15 hours OT) and if they take a weeks vacation will get paid for 65 hours?

AND Grant_I, just who is the "big guy" who is guessing wrong again?

Again you are wrong. Crown has increased their service hours to 65 Hours a week. Keep guessing wrong big guy!

Illinois is in equally bad shape. Right now I think all dealers are down to 32hrs a week. Including crown, raymond, clark, komatsu and jungeheinrich. The economy doesn't look like its going to pick up any time soon as our customers are canceling maintence and closing left and right.

Or did they do what a lot of places do cut back pay scale lay off workers give upper management a bouns.We are so smart to make such good decisions. I know this if We acted like the government we would get fired sued and put in jail.My water heater went out so I need a raise.I going to take out of Johns retirement to fund my new car project.Ill take that vacation to Florida to vote your way.

that has got to be the pits, it's not like the bank will allow you to cut back your mortgage payments by 2.6% (even when the value of your home dropped by 20% in the last year...)
My heart goes out to the previously overpaid Crown Techs... ;-)
I wonder if Crown Inc. cut back on any of their expansion plans? are they still building a IC unit? and all the expenses that goes with that...
Did the Crown owners take a pay hit like if it was a stockholder owned company, and the stockholders got little or no dividend, and lost value in the stock they owned?
I wonder how long until every other forklift company "right sizes" their pay structure

D

We are done seeing a pour out of workers from other dealers with lack of work on their applications.My heart goes out to them, this is a small town.Praying for the best for all.