on-line bad idea very dangerous way of thinking!

My full understanding of the OSHA standards in the US is that the employer of the lift truck operator is the one that is ultimately responsible for qualifiying (aka certifying) an operator for their specific operations. Live outside trainers provide an educational opportunity for drivers to improve their knowledge & some basic hands on operational skills. On line training only accomplishes the first portion up to a point, i.e. very little opportunity to have alive Q & A session or discussion with others that have a similar occupation.

Lastly, OSHA does clearly state that the operator must be trained in they oprations they are expected to peform - no on the job "trial & error" training allowed around other employees. This means if you are training to perform duites on the shipping & loading dock and you are transfered to the warehousing operations you must be requalfied by the employer to perform those operation , even though it may be the lift truck make, model & specifcations. Change employers the oprator needs to be requalified my his new employer. This sort of like the apprenticeship training that is found in Germany (i.e. a jouney man machinist at company X moves to company Y as a machinist - they are expected to go through apprenticeship training under the standards of the new company - generally this takes 5 years - job hoppers are not common place).
Do really think on-line training can do this, it may be a short course in the total amount of training required in for proper qualification. In a nutshell, most proffessional & live trainers run the operators thru classroom & hands on opertional training - does evaluations at key points and a final exam, makes his recommendations to pass or fail, present the results to supervision/management - along with some paper work (wall certificate and wallet card) stating certain drivers passed his evaluations. And from that point it is up to the employer to provide the job evaluation evalutation and issue the paperwork to the operators as the employer sees fit.
This is basically what guys like Dan M do & I am more than sure he can expand on & will on what I have stated here as I have only provided a Readers Digest "Short Story" based on my own experiences and recalling Dan M posting on this site & his proffessional passion for a career he enjoys plus he trades in his Lambo every year on a new model with the all the latest tech but he has to get requalified each year before he can drive in the US - the word is out on those guys from mostly North of the US - their normal & polite behavior changes when they find warm weather and "fire water" at the same time.
PS: There maybe a typo or two in this message but that is OK by me - I am retired, I am not seeking a grade from a teacher or proffesor or receiving a 5 star performance review from a supervisor / manager and I drive a Fix Or Repair Daily vehicle w/ 270K miles - my wife has the real good car that i am allowed to chauffeur her around in w/cap an all - she calls me Max. This is just free stuff from what I learned along the 41 year journey in the lift truck industry. If this stuff helps great, if it doesn't use the Control-Alt-Delete keys. (LOL)

Well John, those restaurants sound mighty tasty! And I would love to visit Savannah and see those sights....if only I could land a high paying job as a trainer...that would pay for it all..
I just hope those folks on the dog gone internet dont mess things up with that online training!

Me thinks, Ray Tech was just joking when he made that comment about the "highr paying jobs are safe" thing. An issue with on lien wording is there is no voice inflections or facial jestures to give teh rad the full meanin ofwhat is simply presented in black & white. Whoops kinda' like on-line training.
Yep, a lot of people, including moi, had a rolling office & ate a Macy D lunch by the windshield at 70 mph. I did mine in the mid 70's when the speed limits were 55 mph - but I had a CB radio that I used to keep at the 70 mph - thru the states of Ohio, PA & Indiana, Ky & WVA, stayed in motels - didn't matter which one - no freebie stuff (reward programs) in those days, did it for 5 years and average 40K miles/year. By the way I only got 1 speeding ticket during that time in Indiana near Greenfield. Enjoyed what i was doing great experiences and learned from those that had more experience than I.

With a set of forks up front lol

"Online training is a supplement only...that's a given. Obviously, hands on training is mandatory...so your high paying trainer jobs are safe".

Really?

Online training is a supplement to real training? That's like taking vitamins instead of eating. You think you're going to be hungry and your body will be nourished?

Believe me, if an operator safety trainer is doing training solely motivated by the money it pays... I think that might be a good definition of a fool. I traveled 35,000 miles last year in my car and averaged 16 classes a month training. Many mornings starting at 5:00am for travel time, many 2nd and 3rd shift classes, and too many nights in a Quality Inn. Doesn't that sound fantastic! A good trainer conducts training for a higher purpose.

And on a second note; Lambos are too flashy. I prefer Aston Martin.

RayTech, & DanM
Should your travels take you thru Atlanta & you are driving, let me know when and I'll treat you to an ICON southern restaurant called the Varsity, near Georgia Tech. They are famous for their hot dogs & onion rings. They are guaranteed to stay with you for at least a couple hundred miles and help get rid of any of that new car smell that maybe left - TUMS don't help a lot. (LOL).
You'll enjoy St. Simon - if you get a chance go to Savannah - old type "Suthern" charm city (lots of Anebellum style homes, Spanish Moss on the trees - very cleaning & lots of places to eat. We go to the east coast ocassionally I have a nephew that lives & works on Hilton Head Island so we hook up with his family & my sister from N. Carolina. HHI is a bit of a Never, Never Land - but you will see a lot of retired lift truck operator trainers driving their Lambos to their exclusive golf club - I think I saw one from Canada in my last visit - might have been Dan M - whatcha' think?

'Online training is a supplement only...that's a given. Obviously, hands on training is mandatory...so your high paying trainer jobs are safe'.

Can't be that far from me. Next time you come to town, I'll let you drive my Lambo! lol

Online training is a supplement only...that's a given. Obviously, hands on training is mandatory...so your high paying trainer jobs are safe.
And John, I'm hoping to get some southern hospitality when we pass through Georgia next year. Have to stop by the "Southern Soul BBQ" restaurant at Saint Simmons Island!...My buddy at work just visited there and had the most awesome meal! Very nice island....just picture perfect. Cant wait to try those ribs!

I consider my most important goal when I train operators is to motivate. If I don't get them to think differently... I failed. I need to get real with them on fatality and accident statistics. I need to challenge them to build their skill. I need to kill the "autopilot" in their head that takes over operation when doing a repititious task... like operating a lift truck. I need to remind them they are more likely to kill a co-worker with their operation than they are themselves. I look them in the face and ask what it would be like to go home, face their family, and say "Dad had an accident at work today". And then have to say the rest... they seriously injured or killed a co-worker?
Rules... laws... standards DO NOT MOTIVATE. Dan M. is exactly right, online training can't answer the myriad of equipment specific and application specific questions. Online training can't read the person's face and see if they're struggling to understand something and readdresses the issue in a different way. Online training can't walk around a room changing volume level to help the tired third shift operator who stayed late to keep awake and listening. We need to stop the nonsense that online training can address heavy equipment operator safety training. That's ludicrous.

Hey, at the time it was my duty. Could have swam North on the Detroit River to get you fair country but the US side of the River was way too polluted. Now both sides are blue water.
I like Canada, Labatt's Blue and Candians too! I met a lot Canadians when they would come over to see what Lord Stanley's cup looks like in Hockeytown! (LOL) Grew up watching a famous Canadian play w/o head gear & lots of padding at the Olympia Stadium - Gordie Howe!

John, you hit the nail on the head with `students who don't want to learn`
People take it what they want to learn. If someone really wants to learn, they will retain the info. The online courses will help the ones who want to learn at their own pace, be it slowly or fast tracked.
On your Draft issue, I cant imagine how rough that would be to sent to another country in horrible conditions...at such a young age!
It`s one thing to volunteer, (like a few thousand Canadians did) in Vietnam, Korea, but to to told to go overseas to fight and possibly lose your life...that`s rough.

MECH

Don't get me wrong. I was not belittling your statement. I know where you are coming from. Are there those indididuals who really do not want to be there? Most certainly however those people usually get fired after I fail them for not paying attention and thereby failing the course. Companies are shelling out good money for proper training, and in my case, they rely on me to provide the proper training, and report on how there staff performed in a sincere manner. Any disruptive staff, and they are forewarned at the start of the class by me, can very well lose their jobs if they do not show any consideration into the overall success of the session.
Fortunately, I do not run into that issue, not recently anyhow. I simply do not believe in online training for forklift operators. I do not train WHIMS, waste hazard, but maybe whims can be trained online. Safety is safety. We all want to go home smiling at the end of the day. Maybe the decision makers would go home smiling if they saved the company a few hundred dollars by providing online training but once someone gets injured or killed, the smile will be wiped off their faces in a sudden hurry.

RayTech,
Your reference to online training on how to repair something on how it teach peopel to do things, it is some what true maybe up to 80% true. Many online fix & repair procedures (or in written repair manual) do not take into account what it takes to remove & properly reinstall an componemt. They often say or state simply remove & inspect the faulty item and reinstallation is just a reverse procedure and omit many other details, like torques specs, special tools required etc. With live instructions & then hand on doing it you get the opportunity to get a complete education. It is always a good idea to give a pre test (don't make it too easy) before the training session starts & give the same test at the end of the class to determine what & how much was learned. A simple bar graph on key points covered is a good thing easy to understand and send a copy to the person who is paying your training invoice. The "disruptive" students tend to pay more attention in class, your invoice are processed quicker and you increase your chance to coming back.
Oh, live discussions both the students and instructors can learn from each other.
This is all difficult to do on line.
Since training or skill improvement is training what i stated above can be this applied to almost any training program - operator, sales, product sales, etc. etc. An hands on is always the best way to learn - it all cannot be done out of a teext book or on line (an electronic version of a text book)

Many years ago when I was in college I had a two hour lecture class (Political Science) via video screen with a live but monotone professor - 1. boring 2. My rear got real tired after 50 minutes 3. no chance to ask questions 4. I learned & retained very little but just enough to get a "C" - my motivation to get a C was to stay in school long enough to earn a degree and not get drafted into Uncle Sam's Army too soon until my mission was accomplished & receive an all expense paid vacation w/the promise of 3 hots & a cot to Southeast Asia (Vietnam).

When you trim portions out of a sentence, you basically change the entire statement.

Yes, a trainer/instructor is the most important link in the chain, especially if qualified to address issues specific to individual facilities or areas of industry.
But I also know that "live" training classes can sometimes be derailed by disingenuous students who don't want to be there to begin with. Having 1 or 2 of those in a group can waste time and change the mood of the class.

Online training per se does not address queries of the nature cited, but that is where you, the trainer comes in.

I simply meant that if someone wishes to learn as much as possible, online sources can be as beneficial as having a DVD tutorial to watch, or a manual to read..........whenever one wants.

"Online tutorials or classroom instructions can certainly be important modules in the process to become a competent operator"


Not so sure about that. I get asked a gazillion questions when I do my training, especially about concerns regarding their particular facilities where they operate their forklifts. How does online training address their queries?

Hmmmmmm
Would I want my heart surgery done by a medical staff who had only online "training"?
Online tutorials or classroom instructions can certainly be important modules in the process to become a competent operator, but by themselves simply cannot substitute for "hands on training".

Were talking about how bad an idea is, to surf the net and get taught how to drive a lift properly...like it cant be done.
However, people who know very little about fixing lift trucks are getting valuable info, online, from us. They are fixing the trucks by `surfing `online and getting the information from us!
And you said it couldn't be done!

Think about this: if you go to court or give a deposition will you be able to defend your training? If you follow OSHA 1910.178, ANSI/ITSDF B56.1, PAL, CALOSH, MIOSH, and as many safety organizations and forklift manufacturer's training recommendations as you can find then you will be able to defend yourself and your employer. Training should consist of formal instruction such as classroom instruction, written materials, videos, exams, discussions, hands-on including pre-shift inspection and driving skills evaluation, etc. The more you document what you do the better. Yes you can surf the internet about how to drive a forklift but you may kill yourself or someone else without the proper training. Just like you can read about how to swim but you may drown when you jump in the lake.

Online courses are fantastic at answering questions like what's a monotrol pedal on a Hyster? What does the SAS light on the dash of my Toyota lift truck mean when it comes on? What's that big red button at the end of my handle on a Clark walkie style truck do? Online courses are fantastic at motivating people as well. I have seen many engaged and excited people at a computer terminal taking online courses! I change my thought process and priorities many times after reading someone's Facebook post... NOT. Can we please stop accepting the easiest path as being "good enough"? Can we please care about the intent behind any training law, it's not to have proof I faked training. The intent is to help our operators make better choices on a daily bases improving their chance and their co-workers chance to make it home every night to have supper with their families. And not end up in an emergency room or the morgue. If all you care about is PRETENDING to be in compliance with workplace law as cheaply and quickly as possible... GO ONLINE!