To Ken UK,

Well Ken excuse me, if I hurt your feeling, I apologise.

How about we get back on topic and discuss this handbrake issue properly.

I again challenge you to state your exact case in short form one point at a time.

I will respond likewise.

Now you resort to things such as good job theres some distance between us......You the one with immature attitude your the one who wont see how Training standards are set and adhered to in other countries as for me bieng accused of bieng unreasonable.... well thats your choice i train to standards and have many hundreds of recomendations and letters of thanks......
Safety instructor ????? I am a Instructor / Examiner RTITB & ITSSAR.... I never see what you qualifications are just remember i posted a straight forward repl to a question about Hand brake LAW you decided that your way is the only way well as stated watch over the next few years when a dinosuar like you set in your old ways dont conform to incoming codes of practise and you training causes an accident and you get sued for dangerous training. You are a typical trainer that lowers the standards and gives the good trainers a Bad Name So on that Note your posts will be ignored and treated with the contemp they deserve.

P.s You where the one who changed the subject you originally stated about the use of hanbrake i stated the laws with regards to use of hand brake in accordance with the Code Of Practise. Produced within the Uk by the Health & Safety Executive.
Which is LAW with no exception so come here with your ways and your test would simply be a failure for amassing to many points.=========================================================================================
And your virtual threat Quote "To Ken UK Lucky for you, there is some distance between us." Unquote i think just about sums you up.

To Ken UK

Lucky for you, there is some distance between us.

First, you have a very big mouth!
And such an immature attitude!

This forum is for mature professionals to discuss forklift issues, and you do not know me at all, I have never heard of you before and to make all af your accusations as you have against me, while not knowing me at all is very sad, on your part!
I do not understand what provoked your aggressive behaviour, I can only guess that you are the type of "safety instructor" that enjoys the power of the position and that you are some type of dictator that does not like to be challenged!
I suppose you have never been accused of being unreasonable and/or ridiculous? Ha!

Secondly you have avoided the question about "what is your actual arguement?"

Third, I forgot to include my signature last time, but not this time.

You continue to make me laugh you i see you have now removed your signature.
As for nice guy part were are talking about Training standards and untill you comprehend the words Training and Standards you standards will always lag far behind the world on these issues.
Standards are set for safety persons Novice or experienced legal requirements stay the same... You would fail the Fork lift test in the Uk every time because you believe standards differ between trainess.... One Standard One Rule This is how standards are Correct.
Uk Fork lift legislation is the standard that the rest of the world is lead by..
You state in Canada you have no such legislation because its not an issue.......
My suggestion to you is watch this space and when you follow along with Decent safe legislation and it will happen you can look back at these posts and think again.
On the point of emigrating to canada i would not want to if your standards are that poor. As for my so called English when you get a trainee and he cant read the question paper you set him.... i gues you would fail him... i would instead ask him the questions verbally ,,,,,
So if you want to pick up on my english thats fine but english is not the discussion here training is....
I will end my post here with the final statement ,,,,, As far as Fork lift Training goea A1__s i am sorry to have to say i have forgotten more about FLT training than you actually Know about FLT Training

So Canada Trains to poor standards thats all i came here to find out and i hope all Traners in Canada are not as narrow minded as A1___S is He / She is an absoulute disgrace to any Flt Trainer


Ok here is Joke of the year...

Alberta Forklift Safety Council Serious about safety!

Great joke

To Ken,
To get a job in Canada Ken you would need to improve your "English" first, I am talking about comprehension skills here,

Your arguement is about about training to use the hand brake while placing a load?
Is that correct?
My argument is that in Alberta, Canada we have no such legislation because this is not an issue, our experienced operators always use the inching pedal only during load handling and only use the handbrake for parking as this is what its primary function is.
However we let our new inexperienced operators use the handbrake during load placement, but only for a short time, because as their skill level increases they naturally develop skills with the inching pedal.
Oh by the way, if you wish to immigrate to Canada, you must pass the "nice guy test" first. As we in Canada strive to be tolerant and get along with others.
You might not qualify!

Cheers

Canada i see it now A1__S
I think i best get a job in Canada and write a few syllabuses No offence but Basic safety must come 1st.....And everyone needs to sing the same song..... So if anyone in Canada is offering any jobs i may well be interested......... Approach stack stop 6 " away with fork tips......... hand brake on nuetral.............. level forks check above for dangers.... raise forks to desired hieght,,,,,all round checks engage gear release h/brake drive forward gently till heels of forks touch pallet....... Stop apply h.brake nutral...... Lift pallet just clear of beam/ racking........ slight tilt back to stabilze load. aLL ROUND CHECK engage gear release h/brake reverse clear of stack..... Stop aply h/brake nuetral.... Lower load to approx 6" from ground and apply tilt to stabilize load..... All round checks engage gear drive away for next procedure........................ Any comments ?

Sorry A1__s But if you quote In your signature -------------------------
Alberta Forklift Safety Council Serious about safety!---------------------Do you not think you should be more safety orientated ??? You appear to cut corners all the time......------------------- I Train to high standards LEGAL REQIREMENTS ---------------------------------------

To A1_s

Its not about feeling more secure or synchronised movements or bieng difficuilt for beginners, Its about the Test standards set down by the Health & Safety executive ( Code of Practise ) You state ""The main topic is safety and an inexperienced operator has trouble with synchronized movements and using 3 functions ( throttle, lift lever, inching pedal)""""""" On a powered machine ( LPG or Diesel ) you need throttle to assist in the lift but in no way do you inch whilst lifting......To put it in a nut shell HAnd brake must be applied and nuetral before any hydrolics are used..

Some will say but it makes the operater to slow.. WRONG the only reason why they cant operate correctly quickly is once there tested most raley use the handbrake and this is where the accidents start... I will state here and now i will drive any fork lift against any experianced operater i will operate correctly they can cut corners on loading a full load they may beat me by 2-3 mins. But at what cost ( Damage to product ) Wear and tear on machine )ettcccc
If your going to train ensure to adhere always to your countries standards here in the UK i feel we have the highest standards and i adhere to them all the reasons we do things for are for SAFETY of the operater and those working within the working enviroment
A1_S What country are you from ?

To Ken UK,
I can see your side of the handbrake discussion and I do suggest to inexperienced operators that if they want to use the handbrake while placing a load on a stack to go ahead, if they feel more secure and it feels safer to them, The main topic is safety and an inexperienced operator has trouble with synchronized movements and using 3 functions ( throttle, lift lever, inching pedal) at same time is difficult for beginners, so if I see someone struggling I tell them to slow down and not to overdrive their capabilities. The only problem is forgetting to release the hand brake when reversing and thus burns out the brake shoes quickly, so in my mechanic days I used to rewire the handbrake circuit to activate the horn if the operator tried to move the forklift with the handbrake still on.

Someone stated for productivity reasons ????
Its not about productivity reasons its about HEALTH & SAFETY nothing else once an operater is trained if he strays and causes an accident he is 100% responsible as in tht uk we keep training records the trainee signs off all he is taught. In accordance with the code of practise and Uk health and safty at work at 1974 section 2...

Ok to put this post to bed

Hand brake and nuetral must be applied before any use of hydraulics..

Why ???
1/ if left in gear and handbrake off and you use throttle to raise your load as you would on an lpg machine or diesol the machine wants to move cause its in gear...

This is why hand brake nuetrel must be applied failure not to do this will result in 5 points against the operater unless the machine jumps forward then examiner can terminate test for a dangerous procedure.

How many trainees forget hanbrake but put machine in nuetral but on a slight slope roll forward ??? STOP THE PROBLEM TOTALY APPLY HANBRAKE.
17 YEARS Teaching and training sais to me there is no other way unless you want to end up in court and prosecuted for accidents caused by bad or incorrect training, Uk Code of practise states clearly hand brake applied and nutral before any hydrolics are used.....

As a new user of this forum, I think it's great; so many different view points and from different areas can do nothing but educate and inform us all.
From the replies I've read on this issue and I whole heartedly agree; the use of a park brake to adjust a load is impractical in the real world and I find it hard to accept that any legislative body would incorporate this in any regulation.
I've been in this business for almost 30 years and have never seen an operator use a park brake when adjusting a load. It just doesn't make sense in the real world to expect this will be done.
Having said that, I need (as some of you already have), to draw the distinction between a sit-down rider type counter-balanced truck and a stand-up rider narrow aisle truck.
We're talking about sit-down counterbalanced trucks here.
Most internal combustion trucks have an inch or creep pedal (not a clutch) for ergonomics for the driver. In order to elevate a load, we need some RPM on the engine so our right foot needs to be on the gas pedal. Our left foot can be on the inching or creeper pedal which is also a brake. A driver does not need to put a truck into neutral in order to rev the engine, they just use the inch/creep/brake pedal.
On electrics, the lift travel speed is dictated by how far we pull the lever back so no need to keep our foot on the accelerator; we step on the brake.
Many operators' manuals and regulations state to park on a flat/level surface. A park brake cannot be trusted 100% and many trucks being used out there have parking brakes that are not adequate to hold a lift truck.
If for some reason, a person was elevating a load on a slope/grade I would question if we should be doing this, but in the event this happens, sure, using a park brake as well can be an added safety precaution to prevent inadvertant movement of the lift truck.
Some lift truck manufacturers have removed the inch/creep/brake pedal and incorporated a much wider brake pedal so an operator's left foot can be used on the service brake pedal for inching/creeping and elevating a load.

To Wayne C - you asked about a"pancake" brake - it's a compact disc brake assembly where the splined friction plate is sandwiched between two stationary smooth discs. One fixed, one sliding (applied by a spring and pulled back by a solenoid). Commonly mounted on the end of a drive motor to brake the shaft.

The Yale ERP20ATF park brake is released by the truck's logics when drive is requested by the accelerator pedal, and applied again when the accelerator is released plus the wheels stop rotating. Other signals, eg driver occupancy, direction lever, and key-on play a part in the logics too. It is a very effective aid for anti-roll back and ramp start, and is liked by drivers in my experience.

I've read this with interest, as one who embarassingly had to re-sit my test a few years ago when I failed first time due to non-application of the park brake.

I would like to make the point that I think the controls nomenclature is critical in trying to change perception and ultimately the HSE requirement.

A PARK BRAKE is for use when parking the vehicle. It may be hand, foot or electrically applied.
A SERVICE BRAKE is for slowing or stopping the vehicle while in service. It is exclusively foot operated.
An INCHING / BRAKE control perfoms a dual function of interupting traction and applying the service brake.

I suggest that driving test requirement should be that "the vehicle is stopped under full operator control before hoisting, or lowering". This can be acheived and demonstrated to the examiner by
A) a visible aplication of the park brake,
B) application of the service or inching brake (via illumination of the brake lights),
C) or auto application of a park brake (via a dash panel warning light). This auto activation of a spring applied / electrically released "pancake" brake is common on many warehouse products and is a feature of the new Yale ERP20ATF sit down rider three wheel counterbalanced AC truck. This truck in fact does not have a mechanical park brake lever so it will be interesting to see what an examiner makes of it!

Obviously in the real world, experienced, productive drivers will continue to raise forks while driving into the stack, but at least training and testing to the above suggestion will promote "safe" working practice, while not enforcing time-consuming excessive use of the park brake for a function it was not intended for.

To Vic K,
I would like to know who developed that regulation! Surely it was written up by an inexperienced individual, I really wish the legislative authors would consult professional operators from numerous industries before they implement unreasonable safety regulations as law.

What is being taught is that irrespective of class (I, IV or V SDCB) the operator when approaching a pick up or deposit point must stop the truck and apply the park brake. If he is picking a load from racks, h has to hoist, let off the park brake enter the pallet, apply the park brake, pick up the load, let off the park brake, reverse to clear the stack, apply the park brake, lower etc. This is just not real world and operaotrs should be taught to use the service brake to render the truck immobile during these operations.