Canada i see it now A1__S
I think i best get a job in Canada and write a few syllabuses No offence but Basic safety must come 1st.....And everyone needs to sing the same song..... So if anyone in Canada is offering any jobs i may well be interested......... Approach stack stop 6 " away with fork tips......... hand brake on nuetral.............. level forks check above for dangers.... raise forks to desired hieght,,,,,all round checks engage gear release h/brake drive forward gently till heels of forks touch pallet....... Stop apply h.brake nutral...... Lift pallet just clear of beam/ racking........ slight tilt back to stabilze load. aLL ROUND CHECK engage gear release h/brake reverse clear of stack..... Stop aply h/brake nuetral.... Lower load to approx 6" from ground and apply tilt to stabilize load..... All round checks engage gear drive away for next procedure........................ Any comments ?

Sorry A1__s But if you quote In your signature -------------------------
Alberta Forklift Safety Council Serious about safety!---------------------Do you not think you should be more safety orientated ??? You appear to cut corners all the time......------------------- I Train to high standards LEGAL REQIREMENTS ---------------------------------------

To A1_s

Its not about feeling more secure or synchronised movements or bieng difficuilt for beginners, Its about the Test standards set down by the Health & Safety executive ( Code of Practise ) You state ""The main topic is safety and an inexperienced operator has trouble with synchronized movements and using 3 functions ( throttle, lift lever, inching pedal)""""""" On a powered machine ( LPG or Diesel ) you need throttle to assist in the lift but in no way do you inch whilst lifting......To put it in a nut shell HAnd brake must be applied and nuetral before any hydrolics are used..

Some will say but it makes the operater to slow.. WRONG the only reason why they cant operate correctly quickly is once there tested most raley use the handbrake and this is where the accidents start... I will state here and now i will drive any fork lift against any experianced operater i will operate correctly they can cut corners on loading a full load they may beat me by 2-3 mins. But at what cost ( Damage to product ) Wear and tear on machine )ettcccc
If your going to train ensure to adhere always to your countries standards here in the UK i feel we have the highest standards and i adhere to them all the reasons we do things for are for SAFETY of the operater and those working within the working enviroment
A1_S What country are you from ?

To Ken UK,
I can see your side of the handbrake discussion and I do suggest to inexperienced operators that if they want to use the handbrake while placing a load on a stack to go ahead, if they feel more secure and it feels safer to them, The main topic is safety and an inexperienced operator has trouble with synchronized movements and using 3 functions ( throttle, lift lever, inching pedal) at same time is difficult for beginners, so if I see someone struggling I tell them to slow down and not to overdrive their capabilities. The only problem is forgetting to release the hand brake when reversing and thus burns out the brake shoes quickly, so in my mechanic days I used to rewire the handbrake circuit to activate the horn if the operator tried to move the forklift with the handbrake still on.

Someone stated for productivity reasons ????
Its not about productivity reasons its about HEALTH & SAFETY nothing else once an operater is trained if he strays and causes an accident he is 100% responsible as in tht uk we keep training records the trainee signs off all he is taught. In accordance with the code of practise and Uk health and safty at work at 1974 section 2...

Ok to put this post to bed

Hand brake and nuetral must be applied before any use of hydraulics..

Why ???
1/ if left in gear and handbrake off and you use throttle to raise your load as you would on an lpg machine or diesol the machine wants to move cause its in gear...

This is why hand brake nuetrel must be applied failure not to do this will result in 5 points against the operater unless the machine jumps forward then examiner can terminate test for a dangerous procedure.

How many trainees forget hanbrake but put machine in nuetral but on a slight slope roll forward ??? STOP THE PROBLEM TOTALY APPLY HANBRAKE.
17 YEARS Teaching and training sais to me there is no other way unless you want to end up in court and prosecuted for accidents caused by bad or incorrect training, Uk Code of practise states clearly hand brake applied and nutral before any hydrolics are used.....

As a new user of this forum, I think it's great; so many different view points and from different areas can do nothing but educate and inform us all.
From the replies I've read on this issue and I whole heartedly agree; the use of a park brake to adjust a load is impractical in the real world and I find it hard to accept that any legislative body would incorporate this in any regulation.
I've been in this business for almost 30 years and have never seen an operator use a park brake when adjusting a load. It just doesn't make sense in the real world to expect this will be done.
Having said that, I need (as some of you already have), to draw the distinction between a sit-down rider type counter-balanced truck and a stand-up rider narrow aisle truck.
We're talking about sit-down counterbalanced trucks here.
Most internal combustion trucks have an inch or creep pedal (not a clutch) for ergonomics for the driver. In order to elevate a load, we need some RPM on the engine so our right foot needs to be on the gas pedal. Our left foot can be on the inching or creeper pedal which is also a brake. A driver does not need to put a truck into neutral in order to rev the engine, they just use the inch/creep/brake pedal.
On electrics, the lift travel speed is dictated by how far we pull the lever back so no need to keep our foot on the accelerator; we step on the brake.
Many operators' manuals and regulations state to park on a flat/level surface. A park brake cannot be trusted 100% and many trucks being used out there have parking brakes that are not adequate to hold a lift truck.
If for some reason, a person was elevating a load on a slope/grade I would question if we should be doing this, but in the event this happens, sure, using a park brake as well can be an added safety precaution to prevent inadvertant movement of the lift truck.
Some lift truck manufacturers have removed the inch/creep/brake pedal and incorporated a much wider brake pedal so an operator's left foot can be used on the service brake pedal for inching/creeping and elevating a load.

To Wayne C - you asked about a"pancake" brake - it's a compact disc brake assembly where the splined friction plate is sandwiched between two stationary smooth discs. One fixed, one sliding (applied by a spring and pulled back by a solenoid). Commonly mounted on the end of a drive motor to brake the shaft.

The Yale ERP20ATF park brake is released by the truck's logics when drive is requested by the accelerator pedal, and applied again when the accelerator is released plus the wheels stop rotating. Other signals, eg driver occupancy, direction lever, and key-on play a part in the logics too. It is a very effective aid for anti-roll back and ramp start, and is liked by drivers in my experience.

I've read this with interest, as one who embarassingly had to re-sit my test a few years ago when I failed first time due to non-application of the park brake.

I would like to make the point that I think the controls nomenclature is critical in trying to change perception and ultimately the HSE requirement.

A PARK BRAKE is for use when parking the vehicle. It may be hand, foot or electrically applied.
A SERVICE BRAKE is for slowing or stopping the vehicle while in service. It is exclusively foot operated.
An INCHING / BRAKE control perfoms a dual function of interupting traction and applying the service brake.

I suggest that driving test requirement should be that "the vehicle is stopped under full operator control before hoisting, or lowering". This can be acheived and demonstrated to the examiner by
A) a visible aplication of the park brake,
B) application of the service or inching brake (via illumination of the brake lights),
C) or auto application of a park brake (via a dash panel warning light). This auto activation of a spring applied / electrically released "pancake" brake is common on many warehouse products and is a feature of the new Yale ERP20ATF sit down rider three wheel counterbalanced AC truck. This truck in fact does not have a mechanical park brake lever so it will be interesting to see what an examiner makes of it!

Obviously in the real world, experienced, productive drivers will continue to raise forks while driving into the stack, but at least training and testing to the above suggestion will promote "safe" working practice, while not enforcing time-consuming excessive use of the park brake for a function it was not intended for.

To Vic K,
I would like to know who developed that regulation! Surely it was written up by an inexperienced individual, I really wish the legislative authors would consult professional operators from numerous industries before they implement unreasonable safety regulations as law.

What is being taught is that irrespective of class (I, IV or V SDCB) the operator when approaching a pick up or deposit point must stop the truck and apply the park brake. If he is picking a load from racks, h has to hoist, let off the park brake enter the pallet, apply the park brake, pick up the load, let off the park brake, reverse to clear the stack, apply the park brake, lower etc. This is just not real world and operaotrs should be taught to use the service brake to render the truck immobile during these operations.

Thanks Vic,

Class I,II, III - use plugging for normal braking, do not use park brake or neutral unless special circumstances warrant it.

Class IV, V - use inching/brake pedal for stacking or racking, do not use park brake or neutral unless special circumstances warrant it.

Class I,II, III- Park brakes are usually one small drum or disc and go out of adjustment quickly if used as a normal brake

Class IV, V- Park brakes are usually the trailing shoe of the service brakes and thus will wear out very quickly if operator forgets to release the park brake before moving

Class I,II, III- Should not be used on ramps of more than 5% grade because of the poor braking system unless the manufacturer recommends it is safe to exceed 5% grade

Hope this is a start

I think that the last couple of posts are diverting us away from the central point of discussion. To try to bring us back on track I will summarise
- Park brakes should be used when parking the truck.
- service brakes should be used in all other circumstances apart from ramp starts.
-training authorities should not promote incorrect operator practices
-training practice should reflect the way that we expect operators to drive.

Hopefully this is explicit.

Hi Guys,
It is obvious from the above discussion that safety techniques should not be generalized.
May I suggest that we try to be more specific so that we as safety experts can provide accurate and explicit safety information to the end users.

SDCB ->Sit Down CounterBalanced. There can be no compromise when it comes to safety - I thnk the forum is agreed on that. Too many people believe that applying the park brake puts the truck into the safest possible position when in fact, it does not. The action of pulling on a mechanical lever does not in itself ensure that the brakes are properly applied given the nature of typical parking brake mechanisms. Improper adjustment due to wear over time, stretched cables etc can cause the actual holding force to be diminished.

By being taught to consciously apply the service brakes, the operator is in total control. The service brakes are generally more powerful and the operator will know immediately if they are not functional. The conscious application means however that he is aware of what he is doing at all times.

The repetitive action required in applying the park brake as taught today means that for the simple pallett handling outlined by Wayne, the handbrake has to be applied and released around 8-10 times. Do the math and you can see that in a normal shift, the figure is mind blowing. Park brakes are not designed for this intensive use and by teaching this non sensical way of driving, productivity is negatively impacted, park brakes wear out very quickly, downtime is increased and operators can face strain injuries because of the fact that the brake is designed to be applied sparingly.

The acid test is that in the real world, no-one drives as they are taught. It cannot be enforced because it is non sensical. It is high time that training authorities wake up, smell the roses and modify their practice such that the correct way is to apply the service brake which holds the truck safe when making all hydraulic movements.

My thanks to all who have contributed to this debate so far.....

Hi Wayne, I just like to say that I also agree with real world training. However the problem is that everyones real world is different... So to enable everyone the opportunity to operate in a safe controlled manner, without giving the option to increase the risk or even cut corners certain procedures need to be taught and followed. I must admit that so far I have not come across an operator who can think/concentrate and react from start of a shift to the end... 100% concentration is something we humans are not good at.. Hence the need to know how to control our operations..

Can't say I know what a SDCB lift truck is.. But here in the UK the majority of trainees are trained on a counterbalance 2000kg or less or reach truck. If an operative were to be trained on such a truck that you were unable to apply the parking brake then of course it would not be taught. This is not really what the discussion is about.. But point taken.

This is not an issue in the US. OSHA does not speak on the matter, neither does ANSI/ASME. In fact I never heard of it until now. I see the points on both sides but am glad it is not a battle I have to fight, since I do not feel it is needed in all reality!

Hi again, Yes I do agree with you both, but Basic training gets the trainee to use the truck in a safe control manner, and as for use of the service brake depending on the type of truck this is also taught.. If when doing a refresher course an experianced operator fails to apply the park brake you are unable to mark as fault unless the truck moves and not the mast. All safe operating procedures need to be included in Basic training along with reasons why. Giving the operator the choice to assess for them selves what action is needed when operating.

We received this comment in the course of the day, from an Australian Trainer and thought it would be good to add it into the forum...........The use of the hand brake when raising or lowering was of interest. Many trainers in Australia insist that the hand brake is applied in this circumstance and often incorrectly tell trainees it is a legal requirement. It is not so long as the forklift is secured from movement via the service brake and selection of neutral. The benefit of using the handbrake however is that it does ensure there is no forklift movement with the mast/load raised - one of the key reasons for the catastrophic lateral roll-over. We train all new operators to use the hand brake and explain the reasons why. However as this practice is not common in the workplace (probably zero) we allow them to move to the service brake when more experienced. I certainly never penalise licence applicants when conducting a licence assessment when they opt to use the service brake over the hand brake and nor does the assessment instrument allow me to penalise them. Sounds like similar issues your writers were discussing.

I'm fully aware of the procedures Aidie but I am challenging this use of the park brake which is not designed for this level of mis-use. The service brakes are much more powerful, generally self adjusting and will hold the truck more securely than a park brake. Operators should be trained to apply the service brakes securely when making hydraulic movements. If you study any application, operators in the real world do not practice what they have been taught. Once they get their license, the park brake is generally used as designed but in not promoting the use of the service brakes whilst making hydraulic movements, we lose the opportunity of ensuring safe practice. The use of the park brake as enforced by the training agencies is non-sensical, impractical and ripe for review.