@triumphrider
In the case of the Automatic Ready Power unit the engines only job was to drive a generator to keep charging the battery so the forklift could work the total work shift. The only units I saw in my tenure in the industry was some large capacity (20k to 30k) Autmatic electrics used was at Aloca plant near Evansville, Indiana (not far from Santa Clause, Indiana). This units handled aluminum sheet rolls & loaded the on a flat bed via a big fat coil ram.

As I recall when Eaton Yale & Towne bought Automatic they sold the huge electric portion to Silent Hoist or possibly it was Ewell Parker

sounds like the original hybrid drive system. I have a couple of tier 4 diesel units here and Nox reduction is the main reason for the DEF system in them. Works pretty good according to the environmental Nazis. Only problem we have is when some really smart idiot puts diesel in the DEF tank. Yep it is next to impossible yet it has happened. But as far as Exhaust is concerned, if he does not remember his posts and claims should tell you something about him.

exalt
You said. "now i understand that you can have a IC engine that can be used as a generator to power a battery to run a truck."
Yes this concept was introduced by the Automatic Lift Truck Company out of Chicago in the mid to late 1960s. It was called a Ready Power unit designed to be fitted onto large capacity electric forklift. This was developed under the direction of a fellow "the late Thomas J. Finlayson". He became my first sales/marketing boss at Allis-Chalmers in 1969. Automatic was later bought out by Eaton Yale & Towne which eventually became Hyster - Yale Material Handling.

Ok i did believe wrongly that Hydrogen had a future in the global market. I had got a bit of bad advice off someone who was looking at getting me into the hydrogen side of the business.


In pursuing Hydrogen i got to meet with some people who could correctly not only explain why hydrogen would not work but also how hydrogen woudn't work in forklifts. what i didn't really understand is that in forklifts the vibration would ultimately damage the hydrogen fuel cell cells. This is why i understand what hyster is doing because yes i did make the same mistake that hyster has made to believe that Hydrogen has a future. Hydrogen can be produced quite cheaply the problem comes when you have to pressurize it to either 300 or 700 bar then you have to have the high pressure tanks to hold the hydrogen a 5 kg tank cost around $9,000 each.


What i do is learn from my mistakes and move forward if you asked me about four or five years ago i would have laughed at you if you said Diesel would be gone in 10 years from then.

But i have learnt that it will not only from an environmental reason but also a cost reason. now i understand that you can have a IC engine that can be used as a generator to power a battery to run a truck. that will be 100% zero emission and cost a fraction of running a Diesel or Gas truck.

So yes i have put things on here in the past that i don't even remember. But like i have said i learn every day and still 100% believe that modular construction and other new technologies will change the materials handling industry.


Exalt as a company will play a part in this weather it is small or large we will change the market

"Both Lithium and Hydrogen will play their parts in the demise of IC powered forklifts" (exalt)
"Now you might still want to believe that hydrogen won't over take diesel within 5 years , but in 5 years' time will you still be in business" (exalt)
"yes hydrogen will be affordable for customers with a single truck, it will be all about the design of the truck. But in price comparison with the new developments in Hydrogen fuel cell for automotive this will help reduce the price for materials handling" (exalt)

And it gets better. Check the thread " What will 2016 bring".
Nothing wrong with speculating as long as you call them speculations. Not facts.

@yidneck
The North American market US, Canada and Mexico reduced the number of diesel powered lift in the US back in the 80s mainly in trucks in the 4000 lb to 8000 lb. lift capacity due to NOX poisoning. Forks lift working in over the road freight hauling business, companies like Roadway and such also dock side operations (stevedoring) - in ships hold & temporary warehousing. Large capacity units are primarily diesel especially 15,000 lb. & above lift capacity.
The 10% reduction the EX man is talking about is primarily in the European market where diesel is was common place but slowly change to LPG fuel. The US alone is the largest lift truck market in this world by Industrial Truck Association statistics and by JIVA (Japanese ITA) and the European equivalent of the ITA, Canada is about 20% more or less the size of the US. Mexico is much less than Canada (both members report data to the ITA). Mexico uses almost zero diesel power lift due to the poor quality - only in large capacity units. Recalling selling several (like 10 or 12) Mitsubishi brand large capacity forklifts to the Port of Vera Cruz in the early 90s, before the joint venture with Cat. I was the sales liaison manager for Mitsubishi at that time and knew the UDIMAC dealers very well from my previous life with Allis-Chalmers. We introduced about 2600 Mitsubishi brand forklifts into Mexico from a base of zero in 5 years. Only the units that went to Vera Cruz were diesel powered.

The demise of diesel in the US for forklifts started a little over 30 years ago. The US seems to be a very significant market for forklifts in the world wide picture - add in the demand in Canada & Mexico - N. America seems to be the top dog. All the major US motor freight companies used to buy nothing but diesel 4000 & 5000 lift capacity press on solid tire for lifts - people like Road Way, Yellow Freight, Consolidated, ABF, etc. But turned to LPG fuel in the early to mid 1980s. Primary reason NOX poisoning - couldn't spell global warming back then and didn't hear out of Al Gore then he was in his mid/late 30s. Also many stevedoring operations turned away from diesel powered 6 k to 8k lb. lifts used in the ships hold and dock side warehousing operations for the same reason - the NOX issue. Diesel powered lift in Mexico is very small - mainly in large l capacity lift but no existent in 5K-6K lb. capacity pneumatic - poor quality diesel fuel. Guess the switch over in other countries were slower to react - main reason fuel prices and mileage - was amazed when I visited the UK in the late 70s on how many diesel autos were in use & the price per liter vs. US prices ( the exchange rate then was 1 BP = ~$2.50 USD - today 1BP = $1.27 USD big difference). Some how the world largest polluter doesn't seem to care very much about air quality. "Top 5 most polluting countries China (30%) The world's most populated country has an enormous export market, which has seen its industry grow to become a serious danger to the planet.... United States (15%) The world's biggest industrial and commercial power.... India (7%)... Russia (5%)... Japan (4%) United States is historically responsible for more emissions than any other country, it is no longer the world's largest single emitter of greenhouse gases. China surpassed the United States a decade ago, and its emissions today are about double the American figure.

The demise of diesel in the US for forklifts started a little over 30 years ago. The US seems to be a very significant market for forklifts in the world wide picture - add in the demand in Canada & Mexico - N. America seems to be the top dog.
All the major US motor freight companies used to buy nothing but diesel 4000 & 5000 lift capacity press on solid tire for lifts - people like Road Way, Yellow Freight, Consolidated, ABF, etc. But turned to LPG fuel in the early to mid 1980s. Primary reason NOX poisoning - couldn't spell global warming back then and didn't hear out of Al Gore then he was in his mid/late 30s. Also many stevedoring operations turned away from diesel powered 6 k to 8k lb. lifts used in the ships hold and dock side warehousing operations for the same reason - the NOX issue. Diesel powered lift in Mexico is very small - mainly in large l capacity lift but no existent in 5K-6K lb. capacity pneumatic - poor quality diesel fuel.
Guess the switch over in other countries were slower to react - main reason fuel prices and mileage - was amazed when I visited the UK in the late 70s on how many diesel autos were in use & the price per liter vs. US prices ( the exchange rate then was 1 BP = ~$2.50 USD - today 1BP = $1.27 USD big difference).
Some how the world largest polluter doesn't seem to care very much about air quality.
"Top 5 most polluting countries
China (30%) The world's most populated country has an enormous export market, which has seen its industry grow to become a serious danger to the planet....
United States (15%) The world's biggest industrial and commercial power....
India (7%)...
Russia (5%)...
Japan (4%)
United States is historically responsible for more emissions than any other country, it is no longer the world's largest single emitter of greenhouse gases. China surpassed the United States a decade ago, and its emissions today are about double the American figure.

Diesel will be les than 10% of forklifts sold by 2024, Hydrogen fuel cells are not viable without large subsidiaries and won't work in forklifts that run out side, and what i have said about Lithium is right

As far as what you said in the past being proven right....
Check out the discussion " How long before the end of deisel powered forklifts" with predictions of diesel being less then 10% by 2024 and your predictions on hydrogen fuel cell and lithium.......

If your relying on climate change for your trucks success then your truck is doomed. It's been " we're going back to the ice age" when that was disproved they changed it to global warming. Now that changed it to climate change. They learned the hard way, if your going to lie don't be specific....
You now, like don't say truck will be presented this year April. That is to specific. Generalize... Like some time this year or the year after or a few after that.

@exalt
How did you come up with this 5 year projection? our own AOC who was educated at one of the finer university in the States, Boston Univ. that environmental things will start happening in a big way in 12 years. Me thinks these predictions came from a bodily orifice which very rarely sees sun or moon shine.
Maybe a former US VP, Al Gore could shed some of his "unique" thoughts & predication on these matters. But he has been quiet as of recent - quit a noise maker a few years ago. But he wrote a book about C C.

exalt
where is it? the lift, you know, the thing you say you have but refuse to show any real supporting evidence of it?

Gee you sound like a salesman for the 'new green deal' :o/
please lets not start on that grossly misconceived and factually wrong misrepresented notion. Most of us that have been around for a long time know what that's really all about, been there gone through that so many times before so let's not go there :o/

OK you say we have never produced anything well firstly that's wrong, Secondly what we have said in the past has been shown to be right and what I'm about to say will be shown to be right in the Future.

So lets just say Nuvera & Maximal will drag Hyster Yale down to a point were shareholders will want out and a cut price sale to one of the Chinese manufactures like Hangcha will happen.

Now Lithium iron batteries are a bad idea and hear are two examples of why Heat & the amount of power you need to charge them. Now you defiantly don't seem to understand these batteries. When these batteries overheat they just don't catch fire they explode there is plenty of evidence of this if you look another major problem with these batteries is working in hi heat and hi humidity they loose charge very quickly. Then you have the charging system. Most facilities have the electric capabilities only to charge at 9KWH this is certainly not enough to support a double shift system even with opportunist charging. If a customer wants to go with the larger 30KWH or 150 KWH chargers that would be needed to run a double shift system they would have not only the hi cost of the chargers but also the hi cost of the cabling to enable the chargers to work.

Now for Diesel and other polluting fuels. The thermal runaway is now getting to a very dangerous stage and climate change will start to cause major issues over the next couple of years, this will result in Governments having to change because of pressure from their people. What Governments around the world will do is to start a carbon sequestration program and will pay for this with a 25% tax on polluting fuels. What this would do to an average polluting forklift would be to add around $ 1,500 extra cost per year to a 3 ton forklift around $2,100 to a 6 ton forklift around $5,000 to a 16 ton forklift and a round $8,100 to a laden container handling forklift. Companies when this happens will almost certainly look at zero emission products, Electric prices will also rise if the power station that produces the electric is polluting.

Now this will happen over the next five years

I believe the brand new and improved model is some type of teleportation device