so very true raytech
working together looks way better in the customers eyes and this should be EVERYONES main concern, not anything else.
unfortunatly dealers are looking at market shares and not as much at the customers satisfaction. They say customer satisfaction is important but how important is it really to them? In most cases i've witnessed the money always trumps everything else when it comes down to the wire.
What they fail to see is if you satisfy the customer no matter how... the return business will outweigh any profits they want to make by trying to stifle our efforts helping each other.

now as for handsets?
most of the time they can be obtained, dealer will sell you one for a hefty price usually but when you purchase one you 'HAVE TO' insure you are getting the right programming level, like with curtis handsets, they have 4 different programming levels.... most dealers will sell you the cheapest one which is only 'user level' access... NOT good enuf to do what you need. OEM or dealer level access gets you most anything you need in menu's to setup a controller. Just remember though.... the higher access level you get the more it costs. In the end its worth it though.
I did find out that the PC version and cable will do anything that any of the other handsets will so if you have PC you could take that version and not worry about anything else.

As for raymond trucks? getting the superword in most cases is impossible unless you have a 'good friend' willing to reveal what the current raymond superword configuration is for the month. They change thier methods so often it's annoying... but i guess they want to insure no other service company can access thier system. The dealer in our area doesn't even allow thier tech's to talk to any other techs anywhere... if they get caught they get fired. Rediculous isnt it? sighs

Just my thoughts on this....

Yes it is handy to get info from other dealership techs. the odd we we do each other favors by hooking up a laptop and clearing memory or adjusting a setting. We could lose our jobs if caught, but working together is way better than bashing each other to the customer!

Hope info below can save someone time and money!...

FYI.....most Raymonds and Toyota electric lifts can have control handles `re-learned` without any laptop or scan tool. You need access to `Superword`....not `password

Also, if you need a Vehicule manager or Power amp on a Raymond, you can buy it pre-programmed from the factory. same thing for display, E-tac cards...they can put hour meter and ser number. You save another service call from the Raymond guy!
You must know what the software series the truck currently has. The truck will show it on the display. Tell the parts guy this info and the factory will install software. Once you install the part, the truck is ready to work.
If you order any of those parts off the shelf from local dealer, it will be brain dead require a `flash`

If anyone knows what trucks out there cannot be repaired without a laptop or scan tool, please list them.
How about the major ELECTRIC brands?

Don't blame techs , the dealerships just do as they are told ,I would suggest all techs work on their relationships with other techs , never know when you may be asked for a favor or be the one needing that favor. P.S. anyone that doesn't relize that when u use a non-dealership to service your equipment ,u always run the risk of these types of issues,no different then automotive industry IMO

Oh I feel your pain rjctech03 !!
Well I'm a Raymond tech, and had to pay through the nose on a Cat!
The truck just had a new control handle installed by us, but needed a quick learn before going back into service. It's a fixed contract, and WE got stuck paying a tech from Timbucktwo to "learn" the handle. We had to pay his travel time and HOTEL stay...and god knows what else...., for a 15 min "learn" job. Cost thousands!
A universal scanner would be nice, or at least force manufacturers to allow re-learns without special equipment.

It's all how you present the situation. Dealers have an advantage, as do independents, it's which advantage is the best for the customer which is key.

Whenever I need to call the dealer for an intellectual issue, I make sure to always make the call from the office from my contact, so they can hear exactly what I'm asking the dealer to do and to let them know I've been as thorough as possible in giving as much information as possible in doing my best to keep their bill down from the dealer.

When the dealer tech shows up with the wrong hand held diagnostics tool, comes later than was quoted from the dispatcher, comes from the farthest dealership in their multi-dealership family, gives the wrong part # on the work order (which my customer signed off-on, not knowing it was the wrong part #), somehow- with all the technology a dealership has, the tech has to make multiple trips to the shop in the course of the repair, etc.....- forgive my ramblings- all the above has happened to me in the last few years.....

Combine the above with the fact that when the invoice comes in it's outrageously expensive & then the customer has to call & argue his point to get the bill even close to being reasonable. I have yet to lose a customer to a dealership with this type of situation being played out time & time again.

I agree with forkingabout, you can do some real damage to these controllers if you don't know what you doing.

However its very frustrating when even though I've diagnosed the fault (i.e lift pot on a linde) I have to get the manufactuer out to train it in. Customers are sometimes unforgiving because they decide "you don't know what your doing"
We lost a service contract recently simply because we couldn't reset the service interval indicators, even though our service work was flawless. This can hardly be fair.

hey there fellas, just wanted to put my 2 cents into this topic. I am a tech for a small repair shop currently experiencing an issue with a raymond orderpicker. What used to be a simple 20 minute swap of a lift power amplifier, (curtis a/c motor controller), i am now being forced to have a Raymond Tech show up tomorrow to OUR customer of 30 years to hook their fancy laptop into it and flash it. It is extremely frustrating that I have to lock out the unit for another day from service because we as a company do not have and cannot have access to any type of vehicle specific software or programs. I have no personal issues or problems with the tech and or techs from Raymond who will be out here tomorrow knowing that they dont have any control over any of this. I understand they are just doing their job. However, the more and more I see of this, Its getting alot harder to do mine.

Sometimes a dealer tech is the safest option.

I have been called in to fix the result of non manufacturers tech attempt's to code in a new electronic unit, luckily he didn't kill it - all he did manage was to wipe the complete software package info for every CAN node, parameter's, serial number & hour information out of the truck.

Luckily for the customer the repair bill was only a call out + labour charge.

I also do my best to talk my customer base out of newer trucks needing computer software to diagnose or reprogram. I do agree with others that state that brake jobs, tune ups, hyd cyl rebuilding, etc still needs to be done, but having my hands tied behind my back for electronic issues is nothing short of frustrating- & not only for me.

My customers with newer trucks always cringe when I tell them the dealer needs to be called because of an electronic issue. The experiences are never pleasant- always seem to be time consuming & expensive. (Even in the HD truck market, the song's the same- independents for the "mechanical" stuff- dealer for the intellectual stuff- and as holds true with us- the dealer experiences are time consuming & expensive).

As a side note- Erik- as you say- this is what happened in the auto business years ago. Consumers are protected by "Consumer protection laws", which ultimately handled this issue for them. The "right to work" gave consumers the choice of what type of repair shop they wanted to use. Unfortunately there is no such protection law in the industrial field. We as independents have to work within the legalized monopolies that exist today.

erik,

Has someone been able to help you with your problem, if so, I need some of the same help. Currently, I haven't been able to buy many newer model used-lifts for fear that they will require programming needs that only a dealer can provide.

Hi All,

I had same problem som time ago. Then I boght tool from ums.sg company. Used it for half year now and still helps a lot. Got it for Still and Jungheinrich. Plan to purchase for Linde this year.

Yes a lot of trucks need a laptop to calibrate, but most can be calibrated with a password, then calibration mode. The customer has the right to know the password. They can change it to whatever they want after the dealer gives it to them. On Raymond/Toyota trucks, control handles and weight are learned on the truck's display.

Erik,

I would like to discuss this with you in more detail. See my profile for contact details.

Erik, to even _discuss_ how to -defeat- trade secrets, copyright, passwords, or other "intellectual property rights" may be something no one in the USA or other "free" market communities should want to do, in an open and search-able forum [like this one].
Most of the time the 'right answer' is to get the trained tech with the software/handset to "plug up". but also, 90% of what happens, can and should be diagnosed "old school", and done without the use of a handset or laptop.