What I am saying in terms of Quality people/users view Quality from various viewpoints as it relates to their operation & business objectives. As some examples:
1. A fair market value lease or long term rental is a very popular way end users can acquire the use of new equipment for 2 to 7 year period depending on the equipment and operating environment w/5 year term the most common and many are supported by a "full maintenance agreement". The end users basically looks at a forklift with a 10,000 hour economic lift span the same a one with a 20,000 hour life span, because all he is looking for is will the unit operate safely and reliably during the term of the agreement.
2. Of course, the user evaluates other factors Quality of customer support, Quality of Support Personnel, Reputation of the Equipment, Dealer response time to resolutions of issues, parts availability
3. Quality of the equipment is judge in varying degrees of importance by end users on many factors such as easy/comfortable a piece of equipment is to operate; of course, how long a piece of equipment will last, ease of service, how the fit and finish of the equipment, etc.
4. In many instances customer, purchasing oerpating people, owners will tell you they are looking for the best "total" value (Product, Support, Finance, Rental Support, Economics) that fits the needs of their company.
5. Most lift truck companies promote they offer high quality equipment (haven't seen one that promoted they offer "low quality" equipment). Companies use terms like they use Tri 10 steel or their bearings are 2 ranks up from the competitions, outstanding fuel economy. But it is hard to find any company that can provide quantitative data in an understandable form that validates these claims.

In my viewpoint, a key difference between east & west views is some what simple - the east views product merits from a more scientific / quantitative view point and in the USA there is less of that and more "emotional" appeal. When it comes to the commercial side of the business there is little difference - except in the accounting methods. I have worked for Japanese owned companies for 17 years.

If you need further in depth understanding you might want to consider visit the US and do some market reasearch.

johnr j, I guess you had helped me clarify my issue in your statement. In addition to forlift US mind set goes with everything, politics, women and man,young and old. Anybody can follow up the American way of life. Yet I don;t quite understand what difference in understanding quality between east and west, is there a bargining?

JJY3
Could you clarify your questions? Not really sure waht you are asking.

What mind set are your referring? Politics? Forklifts? Women? or What?

Clarify what do you mean by "Cheap & Workable?". Most purchansing people will tell you they want to buy the highest quality product or service and the lowest possible price? They might not really mean that but that's what they will tell you. And high quality can mean different things to different people.

Could you guys define a bit more clear and detailed on USmind-set? Cheap and workable?

I agree with you that they are rediculously overpriced, and i have seen a few repair not done because it. But like you said european trucks a light years ahead of anything we have over here.

electek,
Are you on crack? The turret market? Jungheinrich's only problem is no dockstocker?

How about Jungheinrich's parts are ridiculously priced. $150 for a load wheel for a pallet truck! When Crown charges about $35 for the same part. HELLO!

European engineering is great, I think their products are WAY ahead of anything else but they need to wake up. Consumable parts need to be competitively priced. You absolutely cannot charge 400% more for parts just because you "think" your parts are better. Come on. Jungheinrich, Still, Linde and any other European manufacturer will never outpace Toyota, Nissan, Hyster or anyone else in the US until they get a US mindset.

I work for a Jungheinrich dealer. $1900 for an on board charger for the small 4500lb pallet jack? You have got to be kidding.

I've heard some good w/ the turret and some bad. I know there is an engineer from Germany who is very knowledgeable I've seen the turret, three wheel, reach and end rider in the field. Wasn't impressed w/ the reach (seems like they ripped off a little from raymond and crown). Not impressed by the end rider at all nor was the customer who had it on demo. I knew a few guys who worked at the Jungheinrich factory location when it was in Elk Grove. It appears this venture didn't work out very well. How will having two dealers who aren't welll known in the narrow aisle business be more successful?

as for market share in the US its only a matter of time my friend. In europe the big dogs are jungheinrich and toyota... only a matter of time. As for taking raymond accounts, the sitdown and reach are slowly picking up steam. The area with the most growth is in the turret department. For the same cost you get a far superior truck to the Raymond swing reach. Jungheinrich's only downfall right now is they do not have a dockstocker or RC type truck to compete.

didnt Jungeheinrich take a lot of raymonds electric business?
(not final user but building trucks, paint and label for mitsu cat etc)
maybe thats why she had a stick in her mud lol

if that was me i probably would have been less than nice back to her

youd expect a showing from a major manufacturer at a show like that, but they make up their mind based on their reasons

Electek Based on you comments I'm not surprised this is your first trip to Promat. Crown hasn't been there the last 3 shows. I worked the Crown booth in 2002 (the last time we were there) it was a waste of time. As John J mentioned most of the people coming to the booth were competitors (looking for hats), asian manufactures trying to enter the US market or non decision makers. I've been in the lift truck business for almost 20 years and have been to every Promat show since. This one was the weakest by far. I do however agree with you as far as the level of professionalism from many of the people working the booths were poor. It seemed as if your badge didn't say CEO of a HUGE company they didn't want to talk to you or maybe they just didn't want to be there.

As far as your comment regarding Crown technology being weak, I have to laugh. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but you know what they say about opinions. You may not be aware of market share numbers but you may want to look into them. You mention you worked for Raymond, didn't you also work for Crown? Are these the words of a disgruntled employee?

hmm why would companies risk this if there is a chance you can lose money?
(cough) tax write-off (cough) lol

You didn't look hard enough because Nissan, Mitsubishi & Caterpillar did not have a both this year either. Also, that study from 20 to 30 yrs ago might not be too valid anymore? I cannot speak to the return on displaying at Promat but we are North America's largest wholesaler & talk to dealers across the country & internationally. Our traffic was very high this year, not just at our both but at our facility as well. I still believe that Promat is a great avenue for dealers to sharpen their product lines and look to constantly expand and increase their profitability.

yes...no reason to go to promat...not worth the return for the price to be there. Would rather stick the money into r&d ect... so yes, you didnt miss them cause they were not there

Elektek123

Because a company doesn't exhibit at ProMat doesn't mean too much. It might mean that they found a better return on their dollars rather than spend it at Promat. Their market share is admirable - when you are at the top in your classit is hard to stay there as someone is always shooting at you for a variety of reasons - including just jealousy.

In the late 70's early 80's as I recall, a major company did a study on the return on investment for the $ spend to exhibit at the MHI show (now call ProMat), their key findings were:
1. Over 80% of the visitors were from within a 300 mile radius of Chicago.
2. Over 80% of the visitors to their booth were from competitors.
3. They could attribute about 4 unit sales (new customers) directly to their being at Pro Mat.
4. Of the 20% of the visitors over 300 miles from Chicago a significant number of them came equipped with Nikkon or Cannon cameras, wore glasses, about 5'4" tall and liked to talk about the rising sun.
5. Plus, at that time it seemed that Pro Mat organizers were putting more emphasis on "systems" companies, racks, converors, AS/RS type equipment - let's face it, forklifts do not have a lot of curb appeal. They ain't a dramatically changing technology - functions are about the same as in 1967 (transistor and SCR controllers were being introduced then), significant changes have been made in the "human factor" areas, compliance to OSHA and other safety standards has caused changes and every one seems to copy the other guy, except for SAS.
They then concluded the could spend less money and reach more customers all over the US, Canada, etc. via a travelling road show that had customer interaction. They never returned to ProMat.

Yes, their products are now made in North Carolina - Greenville. And no I don't or ever had worked for Crown in my 41 years spent in the forklift industry.

With interpersonal skills like that I am glad you are at a competitor. Keep up the good work!