I hate to get in the union talk I live in a wtw state.If the pay isnt there more to next job your 401 will follow you.If the management *** move on.On average you will change jobs every 5 years.I have worked same one for 11.When can 35 to 40 dollars and hour seem right to put dashboards in and plug 3 to 4 harness plugs in.I knew a man that had that job but it went to mexico.$30000 for a new car I dont see how they make any money on them at all.I get paid very well for the area im in.I dont jockey a desk just a van.I know men that can given a few weeks do my job as well as I do.They are gearheads driving trucks working lines ect.What about fuel control.Let them get the information wont take them long.Well ac trucks have more programing.They are cracking factory systems to not have to buy the 500 to $700 programers on the market.After 11 years in this Iv learned a lot.Put a good man with me for a few weeks and he will know how to figure his way out 90% of the time. Dont get me wrong Iv seen men who didnt know spit come in and work for a while who said they have been doing this for 25 years they also didnt want to learn.We as single members can be replaced.The best you can do is make it hard for them to find a tech with the information you have.After all information is still king of this trade.Not skill.

I know what you mean, I now work for a union shop and the difference in general work environment quality is night and day. I think that employers forget that a union contract can benefit both sides. With the current economy and the temptation to cut overhead costs by constantly shifting benefit guidelines and workplace standards union representation seems the only choice left when it comes down to putting food on the table for a blue collar guy.

I watched our outfit go from free health care and paid travel, change to paid health care and unpaid travel time. And that was the tip of the iceberg; our 401k plan changed to our employer only wanted to deposit their match once a year witch turned your 401k into a glorified tax free saving account.( wait.....my saving account interest made more for me on average!) And don't forget the GPS units!!! They they were for dispatching efficiency, yeah right, six months later several guys were fired some for less than a quarter hour dispute. IMHO that was a tool to weed out the people who did their job well but management had a personal vendetta to remove the employee instead of using there fine management skills to better direct ones talent in a more productive manner. This is what happens when you have no union or a weak union.



"If one demands respect he should be responsible enough to give respect in return. To abuse this rule will only lead to a resentful relationship."

ahhh, he probably did not speak the right language to get the higher paying job, in Miami... you HAVE to be able to speak to the customer's employees....

(says someone born and raised in Miami for 45 years, now living in NC....)

another sad RTW VS unionized story

my uncle was a union HVAC guy up here for 25 years
he made with overtime over 100k

he moves to south florida (west palm/ ft lau area)
no one would pay him more than 15 an hour even in miami
his experience didnt mean anything
which is scary when youre talking about a skilled labor position

nrtw. org/ rtws.htm
this has a map of unionized vs RTW states
right to work seems like a good idea up front
but in the end it keeps wages low and only really benefits large corporations and rich people
not surprisingly RTW states seems to follow RED/BLUE state lines (rep/dem)

im based on long island but work the tristate area (lower NY, northern NJ, and western CT)

funny story about a union guy in a RTW state
my buddy is a CWA (Communications Workers of America) telecom installer in NYC and LI 90% of his work is prevailing (36- 60 and hour)
he was subbed out on a installation in NC
they day the install was to begin the ceiling collapsed
as the GC was flippin out cause of the obvious shoddy work the ceiling guys did my buddy walked up and said "thats what you get when you use non-union labor"
the GC flipped again but in the end he knew my buddy was right
you pay the premium for union guys cause "theyll do it right, the 1st time"

Justinm thanks for your reply, the post was very informative. Are you a city or an upper state tech? Anyhow it sounds like you found a real sweet spot up there in NY. Can you PM me with some details I'm thinking about moving.

I just want to make enough to fill my own gas tank up, and have a pizza + beer at the end of the week and not have to tell my friends no when they want to venture out for the weekend because my employer can't charge portal to portal, witch I think is a fair compromise between having your tech give up travel and the customer paying too much. I was hoping someone in a management position would post and tell us why portal to portal travel charges are not considered. This practice would allow us to get paid for all travel but the ride home unless its more than a 1/2 hour.

Does anyone have some data on right to work states i would like to know which ones are and aren't. Just to compare.

they day they put autopilot in my van is they day they can stop paying me for travel
other than that im a driver when im not swinging a wrench and expect to be paid for that service (map reading is a skill in itself apparently cause we have put new guys in vans that get lost 3 blocks from the shop)
i expect to get paid since my company is getting paid for it

Connecticut is a unionized state
right to work states take advantage of cheap unskilled labor which gets me nuts

prevailing wage in NY for a crane operator 55 and hour + the "stamp" which is pension, heath care, and other benefits that cost the company owner about another 35-40 an hour

prevailing wage in florida for the same job is about 20 and hour you do the math
and i bet the florida rate that the company gets paid isnt much diff than the ny company

you can top out as a forklift mechanic (non union) here at about 35 an hour + benefits and get travel paid
if i go on a prevailing job its 44 and change + the stamp (operating engineer class c "field tech")

Nicely put Roadrat. It seems like in this industry you have a 50/50 chance of getting paid for travel time. I seem to think that some dealerships don't pay at least a 1/2 hour of travel each way; while others don't pay 1 hour each way. If your lucky all travel is paid. Is this per state regulations or a Mfg./Corporate thing and how much money Is your company really saving by using a standard like this. Is a few thousand dollars a year really worth destroying your employees moral?
As far as I'm concerned unhappy employees make unhappy customers. A company focused on a customers well being first will bring home the bacon every time in the long run. You may lose or break even with a customer for some time but that customer will renew its maintenance contracts and buy its new machines from you because they know your service is the best. Customers don't like to be nickeled and dimed and your employees don't like to forfeit travel time, your customers are paying for it anyhow.

I wonder if:
The guy that drives the Fire Truck, does his pay start when he get's to the fire?
The UPS guy, does he only get paid when comes out of the truck and brings in a package or pick one up?
The Law officer, does he get paid only when he is out of the car doing his duty?
The people who deliver the mail, do they get paid only when they are "stuffing" mail boxes?
How about the ambulance driver, only when loading or unloading a patient?
The guy who brings fuel to a gas station, does he get paid only when he is dropping fuel?
Let us not forget the garbage truck driver, does he get paid only when he tips a dumpster or the dude on the back throws a bag on
How about the guy from the water dept. who comes out and cuts off the water cause you didnt pay your bill, does he only get paid when he turns the the valve?
I could go on and on, but I think the point has been made.
I would venture to say they get paid for driving, Then why the **** would a Road tech be expected to drive for nothing?
I would like to have someone in management explain to me why they would. I don't get it , where did this mentality come from, wait.. I know the answer!! from an IDIOT manager!!! who gets a bonus for his big numbers at the end of the month!!!
Just my 2 cents, or as Ed would say "In my humble opinion"

Yes I quit working on forklifts. I now run a local parts dept. and even though the scenery doesn't change I am still able to find my new profession just as rewarding. Trust me when I'm having a bad day I just remind myself of changing lift chains on an Raymond model 85 in 90degree weather; on the contrary you can't beat a service call that requires pulling the E-Stop out once in a while.

For the rest of us don't let these penny pinching times get you down. Every company out there is aware of the current economy and gas prices aren't making things any better, we are all attempting to stretch each dollar a little further. The grass isn't always greener, but a change of scenery and a fresh start can give you a renewed enthusiasm about your career.

You quit working on forklifts?Even if I dont count the 1hr a day its still hard to find a job that pays this good that has the joy I find in this one.I cant think of doing anything else

To answer Ed's question, I have yet to hear of any miss treatment of any employees regarding this matter of travel time. We are all smart technicians and wouldn't of worked in the field for 10, 15, or 20+ years if we weren't. To this day no one knows who got the ball rolling on this, but I'm not going to complain when my check comes in the mail.
As far as this being appropriate or not I can't see any problem with it no names have been mentioned and I try to keep my posts factual without any emotional b/s.
I did apply for a job with another dealership same mfg. and immediately walked out when they stated the first and last hour of travel will not be paid. At that point I knew it was time to leave the industry.(guessing this unpaid travel idea was coming directly from the mfg.)

Dang ED that a cute pup

I would be interested in knowing if this got any press notice?
would any other managers have learned that this is not appropriate?

I would also like to know if any of the techs who raised the question with the state had any trouble finding a new job, or if anyone has had the former employer share their side of the details with possible future employers? In other words, did the management (that was found to be wrong by the state) retaliate against their former employees in any way?

I would like to get back to the reason this post was started in the first place. Our company was found by the DOL practicing policies that were wrong. The company had to pay fines and penalties to the state, and the state is going to send checks to the employees. If you feel your company is benefiting at your own expense feel free to contact me and I will be more than willing to give you the details.