lease is a lease is a lease! it only will work if you follow the terms of the lease Toyta is the #1 rated forklift it has the lowest dollar cost per hour to run. so the maint #'S for the lease will be lower (less parts and service needed) the only way you can get hurt is on the OVERTIME HOURS. Your are giving X amount og hours to run the unit in a year they will charge you for the hours that you run over that.
If it is a Toyota the lease is from TFS ( toyota Finaincal services)
they are great to work with. But are strict on overtime hours.
if it a residual lease the residual may be more than you current provider and that will cost you more if you purchase at the end of your term. Also Toyota is Very good about multi truck dicounts and they hold the dealership to a minium G.P. % this keep the lease #'s Very low.
I have Toyota's with 15000. hour in a 2 shift operation and the dollar cost per hour is $1.45
good luck

FMV leases are calculated utilizing sell price, interest rate, term (number of months the lease term is for) and residual value (the anticipated fair market value for the truck based on the number of hours it is used, the ambient conditions of the application the truck will work in and the age of the truck when the lease is over). Some leasing companies also include the depreciation benefit that they receive as they are the owner of the truck. This depreciation benefit will also cause the monthly paymnet to be lower. Not all leasing companies include this benefit in their calculation. The residual value has a tremendous effect on the paymnet. The higher the residual value, the lower the monthly payment. Just like with cars, certain brands of lift trucks have a higher residual value than others. With cars, Honda, Toyota, BMW etc. have much higher residual values than say a Chevrolet, Chrysler or Hyundai. With lift trucks, Toyota does have one of the highest residual values, especially with their internal combustion trucks. The residual value is higher because more people who buy used forklifts want a Toyota and are willing to pay more for one. (again this is similar to cars as I stated above). The Toyota product has a good reputation for low cost of ownership and reliability. They are not the only one with a good reputation however they are probably the best known because of the quality of their products and name recognition. The overall cost of maintenance will also impact the rate in a lease that includes maintenance. Maintenance rates are calculated utilizing the number of hours the truck is to be used, the severity of the application as well as the term of the agreement. This information allows the provider to calculate the number of labor hours required for breakdown repairs as well as P.M.'s and the parts cost associated with those repairs. A maintenance contract usually includes all "normal" maintenance. What that means is that if the machine breaks down when being used properly and safely and in accordance with the normal operational requirements, the repair is covered. If the machine breaks down or is damaged because of improper or unsafe use the repairs will be billed to you seperately. This type of incident is usually referred to a avoidable damage or abuse. An example of this would be a truck being run into a rack and having hydraulic hoses broken as a result. You should also determine if tires are included and if so how many sets. It is not always a better deal to include tires as you may not need the number of repalcement sets built into the contract and there are generally no refunds. The other item that you need to understand if it is included or not is replacment equipment. If your truck breaks down and cannot be repaired within a reasonable period of time (usually 24 to 48 hours) do you get a free loaner or replacement truck with similar specs to use until yours is fixed.
The advice given by previous posters about reading the contract is important. You also need to ask how many hours of use are included in the contract? Make sure that number is adequate for you application. Average applications use their trucks 1500 hours a year or less. You also need to ask what the overtime rate is if you should go over the alloted number of hours. You should determine if the overtime is based on monthly use versus annual use. Demand it be for annual use or even an even better thing is to have NO overtime billed until the end of the contract IF the total number of hours for the contract is exceeded. Also ask about the return provisions. Ask for a written discription of the expected condition of the truck when the lease is over. Most reputable companies will have no problem providing this. An important part of the return provisions is whether you will have to pay the return freight. Also, where does the truck need to be returned to? The neares dealer or to some othe return point. If it is the dealer, return freight is generally low. If it is to some other point, your return freight costs could be higher depending on where that point is.
With all of that in mind, it is very poassible for one company to have a significanly lower (or higher) cost than another company. All of the above can drive a rate down (or up). SOme manufacturers also offer subsidized lease rates through their dealers. These low rates can be as low as 0% and can drive a monthly payment down. This is similar to what car manufacturers do with their low lease rates. The manufacturer is actually buying the lease rate down through a subsidy.
Having said all of that, the best thing is to deal with a reputable company that has a good name and a good reputation for providing good quality equipment, fair business practices and excellent customer service. Ask for refernces and call them
I hope that helps!

Two years ago, I was in on a deal against Toyota. The deale took place in Canada and the customer had 3 Toyota's nearing the end of a 5 year lease. The Toyota dealer surveyed the trucks and submitted a proposal for each truck from $5,000 to $6,000 in order to get the trucks ready to turn into the leasing company. The customer was upset, to say the least. He was juuuuust about to place the order with my company. Then came the hook from Toyota. They told the customer that the fee to repair the existing trucks would be waived if they ordered 3 new Toyota's.

Sadly, I lost the order but the customers corporate made a decision to never deal with that mfg again.

Be careful, very careful as to what happens at lease end. Call and talk with customers that have leased with them before.

If your sales person has a nickname of BLAGO.... run.

Thank you everyone for your input. This is a good site to get an outside perspective of what really goes on out there. Take care all!

OPTS GUY,
1. All I can say no one including in your company operates a business as an ONPO (obviously not for profit) company.
2. My experience is that Toyota in the forklift world and auto world is not known to be a low priced seller.

3. I'm certain they are a reputable company to deal with and their agreemetns meet all tests. But how things are structered in the contracts are what you need to fully understand with whoever you do business with. Remember all the Many Mae & Freddy Mac stuff we are dealling with? And all the laws getting passed that the elected officals representing the people don't fully read or read at all.

4. With that being stated, somewhere along the line profit will be realized. My suggestion to you is get the details of the lease contract and the maintenance agreement and a good magnifying glass (for the small print) review it carefully underline anything you have questions about or some vague language and get answers (in writing from whoever you are dealing with). Have a second person take at look at it - sometimes your wife is also a good person to review things (women are better at details than a lot of men)
For example, is there a clause in the maintenance portion that states that the dealer reserves the right to renegotiate the maintenance rate after 2 or 3 years in the contract? Is the lease a 3+2 lease meaing teh monthly payments look like a 60 month lease and you have the option to opt out after 3 years, but if you don't confirm your option to opt on or before a specific day you become locked in for 2 more years?

5. Generally, the leasing company &/or the dealer are responsible for the residual value. Your obligation is to make certain that the equipment is turned in with normal wear and tear, complete & all abuse items are fixed. Always at the end of any lease, have a condition report prepared at your site and signed by an authorized representative of your company and from the dealer before the unit is picked up. Keep a copy for your records.

6. Finally, I totally agree with Normandy's comments. I once had a fleet manager responsible for over 7000 pieces of rolling equipment (most were forklifts) and he stated that dealing with a supplier that he knew and trusted was worth anywhere from 15 to 20% more than the new "kid on the block " with a better $$ and it helped him budget operational expenses easier and more accurately- i.e. no surprises.

That's all I can say.

You seem to like your existing supplier and have a good relationship with them. It is difficult to put a monetary value on that , but is is considerable.

I had a similar experience with a German supplier a few years ago and the customer told me afterwords that he was very sorry to have changed to them, it cost them an extra 70,000 euros in questionable damage in just 18 months. He was very happy to return and I hope we will have them ever more.

My advice is if you are happy STAY WHERE YOU ARE, there is nothing for nothing even if you are Toyota. Even they have to pay wages , costs etc like everyone else and have to recoup things somehow. You will pay eventually , you have to.

JohnJ. My current supplier has told me that the numbers don't make sense and warns me that I may be trapped at the end of the lease with Toyota. He claims this is not uncommon. I understand the hours and abuse effecting the end of lease terms. However, my current vendor has warned me that they might have inflated residuals and my concern is if 3 seperate companies deems the residuals to be lower am I on the hook for the difference? As I mentioned I realize Toyota is a good company but if the sale prices are virtually the same why would the Toyota lease be so much lower than all other bids? I need to make a decision by mid July, so if anyone can answer this question I would appreciate it.

Good Morning OPTSGUY-
Dealerships determine the final pricing. TMHU manufactures the lift truck, which intern is sold to the dealership. We give the dealerships various pricing and promotional incentives throughout the year to offer to customers.

Financing or leasing questions can be directed to the dealership or Toyota Financial Services. Your leasing would go through Toyota Financial Service.

OPTSGUY-

Not sure if you have looked at the TCM forklifts yet but I am confident that we could propose a solution that would be as cost competitive as Toyota and not have you locked into the customer damages charges at the end of the lease.

If you are interested in discussing a TCM solution you can contact me at 773-376-7900

Please ask for Weston Olczyk

OPTSGUY,

The FMV lease residual value is set at the start of the lease proposal based on lease term, anticipated usage (annual operating based on hourmeter reading), operating enviroment, equipment type & specifications.

If the hours are exceeded at the end of the lease term you are on the hook for any impact on the FMV. Generally, if the leasing company gets 100% of tehrsidual vlaue at lease expiration you should have no worries. The FMV at the end of the lease is generally determined by 3 indepentent offers from various dealers and you will also be given an opportunity to purchase teh unit - generally the offer will come thru the dealer you bought it from. If the accumulated hours on the machine are significantly lower than anticipated, you should be given the option to continue the lease for an additional time period - generally at a reduce rate. (depending on the cost of financing at that time). Most of these options you should be made aware of by your dealer at least 90 days before the lease expiration date - many will open discussions 6 months before expiration. The more time you have - the more intelligent decision you can make vs a time pressured situation.

I would also like to thank everyone for their input. I am hoping to find others opinions then just the sales people I am dealing with. I understand they are trying to do their job but I am doing my best to determine the facts -vs- the mud slinging.

Shawna, If I wasn't clear I already have quotes from Toyota. My major question is how can the Toyota lease package which includes full maintenance (based on 2,000 hours) be less than their competitors truck only price? My concern is "Fair Market Value" lease. Since it appears you work for Toyota Corp. can you tell me who determines the FMV at the end of the lease? More importantly short of my operators doing any type of serious abuse to the trucks, do I have any exposure at the end of the lease or does Toyota gurantee the value at the end of the lease? I have asked for a copy of the lease contract (even a blank one) from my salesperson before we make our decision, hope to see it soon.

Thanks, I bet you will get more calls with that number ;-)

Sorry about that. I apologize, that is my error. I have fast typing fingers today! We make sure we get it right here.

1-800-226-0009.

My personal line is 949-223-7769. You can feel free to speak to me.

Shawna Piposar
Toyota Material Handling, U.S.A., Inc.