Allis Chalmers I 600:
Carriage rollers won't turn

Hello
I just got the rollers of my forklift re machined
They had big flat spots on them
A machineshop fixed them up and now they re nice and round again
But the rollers still slide along the mast rather than roll even when i put 3000 lbs on the forks
Can anyone help me solve this mystery?
  • Posted 6 Feb 2020 03:29
  • Discussion started by G_Dj
  • Alberta, Canada
Showing items 1 - 8 of 8 results.
Ok thank you i got good quality digital calipers and will check it out
  • Posted 11 Feb 2020 16:47
  • Reply by G_Dj
  • Alberta, Canada
yes after i researched the model number i figured it out :oD

anyways yes the brass bushing is the softer metal so it is supposed to be the wear side.
It doesn't mean the stub shaft won't wear it will just wear alot less.
So what i would probably do at this point is see if you can get the parts supplier to measure the ID of the new roller and see if it is anywhere near what the stub shaft is before you buy any. They should be able to give you ID specs, then you can measure the stub shaft and it should only be a couple thousands smaller in size, i'd say around 3 to 5 thousands maybe? It won't be much to allow for a slip fit.
If you don't have any calipers get some digital ones to get a more accurate reading.
  • Posted 11 Feb 2020 16:39
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Yes this is a tractor its actually a reversed tractor with seat and pedals etc. facing the rear of the tractor where the lift mast is attached
Yes there is definitely too much play on the rollers
But how could the steel shaft wear out if the bushing is. made out of brass? If anything will wear then wouldn't it be the bushing?
  • Posted 11 Feb 2020 15:06
  • Reply by G_Dj
  • Alberta, Canada
I havn't asked you the model of this lift yet, is this a tractor? or an actual forklift?
i've been assuming it was the model shown at the top of this thread, i've just been basing my comments on how generally a carriage/roller setup usually is configured on any lift truck, so can you give me the model? and i may can find something on it, maybe
but with that said....

when you have the carriage out and put the rollers on the stub shafts they are slightly loose?
They should be a positive slip fit i would think. (no wobble after they slide on the stub shaft).
And they should turn freely no rubbing when slid up all the way on the shaft. No retainers for the rollers?, ok i got that part which is ok, that was the old way the mfg's did it years and years ago. If they do not fit this way then either the bushings in the rollers are worn out or the stub shafts are worn. Either way they should not be loose as in wobbling, they should slide up on the shafts snugly but still turn freely.
And as for the shims/washers between the roller and stub shaft, those should be there to set the side play gap between the rollers and the sides of the channels so the carriage will not be loose and rock side to side too much. You may have to experiment with those to find the right thickness to set, it may only require one on each roller if only to just keep the roller from contacting the back side.
I suppose if those rollers are too loose on the shafts they could be binding up after the carriage is installed back in the channel. Without me being there to actually see what is going on i'm just giving you my educated guess as to whats it sounds like is going on.
It's just been my experience that the carriage rollers should fit snugly on the stub shaft but still roll freely, before reinstalling the carriage and then after installing it in the channel.
  • Posted 8 Feb 2020 00:28
  • Modified 8 Feb 2020 00:44 by poster
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Mine has no brussplugs on end of shaft, nor any type of retainer to hold the rollers in place, neither any type of adjustment for side to side play(i wish it did have that kind of adjustment
When i got the rollers back they seemed to fit somewhat loose on the shafts, would that be the reason that they don't turn?
I picked up some machinery bushings today and will try see if those will work as shims/washers to keep the rollers away from carriage.
I did degrease the mast today as well, but no improvement what so ever
  • Posted 7 Feb 2020 15:41
  • Reply by G_Dj
  • Alberta, Canada
hello G_Dj
oh this one's an older one huh?
i do remember some of those older ones made that way with a brass bushing instead of ball bearings. Just don't see many these days :o)
But yeah you can use some degreaser and clean off the parts where the outer roller ring contacts the front and rear track, you can leave grease on the side unless it also has a roller for side thrust. Those older ones sometimes used brass plugs that were adjustable so you can remove most of the side freeplay out. Does it have these adjusters in the center of the stub shaft that the roller mounts on? The adjustable screw will be on the inside of the carriage where the stubshaft is mounted and is probably an allen head screw with a lock nut on it, it could be a regular bolt or a screwdriver straight slot screw or something like that.

To answer the question about washers between the roller and stub shaft weld? yes there would and usually are shim washers there to hold it out away from the inside weld and stub shaft mount plate. If the roller is rubbing the weld that might well be why they are not turning. There is a likely chance these spacer shim washers are specific to the size of the shaft and also sized so they will not be too big on the OD side and protrude out rubbing anything on the OD side. Would i be correct in an assumption that there are NOT any snap rings holding these rollers on? Sometimes there are, but on some older lifts they did not. If the stub shaft has a groove cut out near the end of the shaft being exposed after you install the bearing then i would say yes it has a retainer snap ring. Or if there are no brass plugs in the end of the stub shaft but you see a threaded hole? Then that could be the retaining method using a flat head bolt and washer to hold the bearing on. I never had many allis trucks in my route to work on but i have dealt with them a time or 2 in my career along with alot of other makes and models over the years so i've just threw out a bunch of several ways they may mount and possibly retained on the shafts.

If by chance the stub shafts do have adjusters with brass plugs you'll need to de-adjust them, then as you are installing the bearings you have to test fit the carriage in the mast and make sure you have clearance between the side of the bearings and the channel side from top to bottom and apply your shims according to the over all side thrust you see as it travels from top to bottom. You may notice it might get narrower towards the top than at the bottom because the bottom channel does tend to take more hits and can get expanded slightly from the impact force from hitting things while the forks are lowered. (just something to keep in mind while you are measuring OAW when setting the shims on the rollers).
Once you are finished it should travel freely from top to bottom and have very little side thrust play in it, just don't shim it too tight or it will get hung up and you'll play hellz trying to free it back up.
  • Posted 7 Feb 2020 09:14
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Thanks for the advice
The rollers don't have bearings, the inside of the roller has a copper insert which slips right on the shafts that are attached to the carriage, yes there is grease on the tracks, should i just spray lots of degreaser on them?
If feel like the rollers bottom out against the carriage(where the shafts of the rollers are welded onto the carriage
Should there be a spacer/washer be between the base of the roller and the carriage so that it can't bottom out?
Sorry theres no parts drawings or anything available for this machine (it's from 1968 LOL)
  • Posted 7 Feb 2020 03:14
  • Reply by G_Dj
  • Alberta, Canada
if you are referring to the mast rollers or carriage rollers?
they are made a certain size and also have a tapered slant to them so tracking in the channels shape. Also bearings may be damaged if they are not rolling, especially under a load.
It would have been more advisable to just replace them.
Also you may want to clean the channel tracks where the bearings contact, no grease.
Some tech's may grease the channels but they should only be greasing the side where the thrust blocks are (if there are any) and do not grease the actual roller track. (at least they aren't supposed to be greasing the contact tracks of the rollers).
The roller is supposed to be able to roll freely, putting grease creates a couple problems that will crop up later on, 1 - it attracts dirt with in the long run accelerates wear. 2 - it also creates a slick surface letting the bearing slide instead of rolling which will allow flat spots to wear into the outside band of the roller.
Now if you are not greasing the roller track and they are still getting flat spots then you have a bearing problem in the rollers.
  • Posted 6 Feb 2020 23:42
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com

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