I don't think that forklift trucks are "sold" nowadays. They are quoted and then the customer makes a purchase. I personally haven't heard of nor have personal knowledge of forklift salesmen consistently lying through their teeth to customers as has been implied by many of the threads in this forum. I also hear a lot of jabbering about how much forklift sales people make, I doubt that. What other job can you think of that paid twice as much in the 1970's than it does today?
A typical scenario that I see is that a customer buys a used truck based on what is available and what he can afford but not based on what he needs. Then that customer grows his business to where he needs to replace the truck but now he only will buy new. What I've seen is that if he gets 6 quotes they will all be based on what he has for a current truck-not on what he actually needs. That is not salesmanship.
I just recently quoted a customer a 10,000# pneumatic and everyone else was quoting an 11,000# truck. Why, because he had 11,000 # trucks and that is what he asked for. But the point is that the trucks that he had actually derated down to 9,050# and that was without the side shifter.
I don't know if many dealer principals read or subscribe to this forum, if so do the math... For a salesman to consider themselves decent in this industry he has to sell at least $1,000,000 per year. Let's say they average 7% net profit on what they sell, they have contributed $70,000 to the company. How much of that are you willing to pay to the salesman? That is why there are not many GOOD sales people in our industry.
What I belive that the industry has devolved into is that since there is not enough profit on the manufacturers and the dealer level, once the customer buys they are treated as a captive audience and attempts are made to get back the profit that should have been made to begin with. That is not a great recipe for long term sucess.

Forkliftt,
As is often said you are "Spot On".
Read, observe, do or try to do and listen coupled with team work are the best and only ways I know how to improve.

In the mid 90's I went to Columbus for sales Boot Camp training to better represent TIE. One thing that stuck in my mind was the Toyota stated committment to Kaizen. Japanese for "constant improvement" we were told. I think that your machine sales force should strive to learn all they can about the product they represent. This is ongoing, I believe. Resources can be sales literature, a seasoned sales manager or even time spent with the product- practicing your walk around presentation. Another resource for improvement is your technical crew. A Toyota 4y has 5 main bearings and hydraulic lifters.... OK, so what is the benefit of this? This would be a good question to ask of your lead shop mechanic. Ask to see the next engine teardown to familiarize yourself with the parts.
I have seen a lot of new machine sales reps go through our area. Young guys without a working knowledge of the product they represent - so no honest way of answering the technical questions asked of them. IMO, this is where you can begin to build a relationship with a customer by: 1 admitting you are not sure of the answer and. 2 promising to find out ang get back with the customer AS PROMISED!
Steve

Ed,
Maybe I didn't make myself clear what I was trying to communicate good to excellent sales people when it comes to the numbers / profit game all have various strengths Dan weaknesses - some have a great technical aptitude others have better personal approach. In lift truck selling a nice blend of both. But the development of the weak side must be improved and always open to changes. Like my mother told me once or twice or a hundred times when I was growing up "Good, Better, Best, never let it rest make your good better, your better best." Followed that philosophy until l hung up my lift truck spurs. But continue to follow it for personal development.

Until one can get to a high level of expertise of either side they need to draw on those who are around him to help close the deal - that's called TeamWork. Dan if he or she is smart will acknowledge those that went out of their way to help or maybe like when I played football some one might just miss a block or drop / fumble a ball to make someone not look so good the next time.

A good example of team work is when working with a customer that has using locations in several locations around the country but all decisions are made from a central location and trade ins or full maintenance rates, etc are required by the home office. The selling dealer or sales person needs to make contact to other dealers and request assistance. If they are successful in securing the business the sales person, who was the point guard, for a lot of the MIGHT claim look at the big order I got rather than what WE earned - somewhat of human nature.

For myself the technical side came easy but the interpersonal side at times was an issue, I worked on those, took night classes to improve (Dale Carnage courses, etc. Later on this thing called Financial Merchandising got really popular. Couldn't wait (need commissions to eat, pay bills, etc) until I had a higher level of expertise in this area - so I sought help from those that could were willing to help. until I felt comfortable.

As far as how to find out the real decision maker is - is by asking questions of a lot of different people sometimes even folks in the accounting department - they tend to be more honest & open than others. Ask questions of your initial contact (s) with that company, who is the person that has the final approval for approving proposals that meet all the specs, etc.

Unfortunately, customers are less interested in the technical know how of products and view forklift as a commodity. It is up to the individual sales person to explain the benefits of his equipment/proposal or support organization and how it can help solve their current issues or concerns. Of course, this takes the skill of asking a few questions and becoming a good listener (some call this empathy phase of selling) when all facts are gathered (technical and/or financial or commercial items) and ready for presentation then going for the close is key (or the ego phase needs to take over).

The only real thing that has changed in selling is that too many folks have forgot how to sell (or have not been afford the opportunities to do so) but have become merchandisers of low prices.

Kinda like technicians that were trained on 1963 technology and say you gotta handle these Tier III lift trucks w/o further training. Heck it stills only take air, fuel and electricity to make an engine run. The decision-makers of today have different viewpoints than those of yesterday and tomorrow will have different view than today. How each can be best approached probably means things need to or had to change. Sales people need exposure to this, like techs need training on electronic communication systems versus mechanical.

The terms "Advertising Sales" and "Technical Sales" are of my own coinage, (so it may be pretty understandable if the concept is not all that clear to some folks) and the salesperson John is describing I would have called an "Advertising Salesperson".
As I see the 'problem' (and "problem" may not be the correct concept) with his approach, which may have been very successful in the past, is that what he was really doing was "taking the gravy" (the "nugget of gold") and credit for sales, yet he was really only creating problems for "his Calvary", that someone else had to have taken the time to learn the skill (the technical sales side) and "eat the tough meat", so to speak, that he had failed to master, to make him look good and be successful.
The other side of that same coin is that (in my opinion) knowing what you don't know and being able to admit it, is -almost- as important as knowing it, since no-one knows it all.
One of the other reasons in my starting this thread was to also get some clues as to how a salesperson doing "advertising sales" can figure out who is the true "decision maker" or is it mainly just looking at a persons title on the business card.
I would also like to know how a salesperson sees the importance of moving the sales process from "advertising" to "technical" (or does the customer do that, after the need is identified), and how important it is for them to learn the technical side of the sale.
I would instantly agree that both kinds of sales are important in this industry,
I would also like to hear if salespeople feel that the technical side is becoming more or less important as Industrial trucks become more a commodity than a specialty item, or even if industrial trucks are becoming more of a commodity type item.

Ed,
I'll offer my perspective.
Long term success in sales is based on the ability of a person to establish a relationship with a customer and partner's with them to offer solutions to their material handling needs. The hard part is finding or getting into see the key person(s) that actually makes the decision and earns the opportunity to develop a relationship. Often customers are reluctant to change if there are no real issues with their current provider. But you have to be like the Indians circling the wagon trains and looking for your opportunity to get inside. Since customers all have various hot buttons when it comes to capital acquisitions these need to be uncovered and addressed by the sales person. These hot buttons are as many as there are decision-makers, in my opinion. Certainly, no one person can be totally capable of possessing the technical, advertising sales skills you refer to but they do need to be able to draw on their organization to support them with the level of expertise needed by the customer.

A good sales persons need to be like a prospector just keep panning for the little nuggets of gold and recognize the opportunity when it comes along.

I once knew a National Account salesman very successful, great people person but technically incompetent - when a customer would ask him how something worked his reply was "It works just fine." If the customer pressed for a more definitive response he called out his Calvary for support.