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DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Technical arena
Discussion:  Batteries for 3 wheel
Number of messages: 16

START MESSAGE:
Vinval
New York, United States
Looking at light load forklifts.  Heinrich EFG-113 with 24V battery,  Clark TMX15s with 36v battery and a Chery FB20S with a 48V.  Total cost with extended warranty varies from $32k-38k.  I just do not understand the benefits of the 3 different size batteries.
Any guidance is appreciated.

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Vincent

Posted 10 Jan 2019 07:13 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
Forkingabout
england, United Kingdom
Your comparing 3 forklifts from different manufacturers all with different load capacity's.
24 volt - 1.3 ton
36 volt - 1.5 ton
48 volt - 2.0 ton

Its easier to make the battery higher capacity & in turn more heavy which in turn keeps the counterweight smaller, this helps to keep the chassis as small as possible as that is basically what 3 wheel counterbalances are all about - manoeuvrability in tight spaces.


Modified 10 Jan 2019 08:52 PM
by poster.
Reply  Report this message
duodeluxe


If it were me I skip the other two and go with the Clark.
24 volt is an obsolete voltage on sit down forklift trucks. 36 volt is strictly a North American voltage and not used in other parts of the world.
You should be able to get the Clark in either 36 volt or 48 volt. The advantage of the higher voltage is faster travel and lift speeds. If you have long runs and need a triple mast with 189" of lift or higher then I would recommend 48 volt. Assuming that you get the biggest battery that will fit in the compartment with matching charger then the 36 volt and 48 volt battery and charger package price is almost identical.

-------------------------
duodeluxe

Posted 11 Jan 2019 00:20 AM Reply  Report this message
MRLIFTOFNY
New York, United States
STICK WITH A CLARK , HYSTER OR YALE 36VOLT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PARTS OR GETTING SERVICE AND THERE WILL ALWAYS GET YOU THE HIGHEST TRADE IN VALUE

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EMAIL ; MRLIFTOFNY@AOL.COM

Posted 13 Jan 2019 01:36 AM Reply  Report this message
Vinval
New York, United States
We have taken the Heinrich out of the running because of the 24V.  Despite the 48V we had to eliminate the Chery as well because it is actually a larger footprint.  We really want to keep a nimble maneuverable three wheeler.  So, the salesman for the Clark told us to check out the 36V from Mitsubishi.  Waiting on a quote to see where it stacks up.  The Chery comes with a great warranty as well.  Any comments about a Clark vs. Mitsubishi?  
As a side note we would be using the service from the company that supplies the Mitsubishi.  Even if we buy the Clark we would still be using service from the Mitsubishi company.  They are just better set up and closer.  So I would prefer to give the purchase, which would be the Mitsubishi, to the company that we will be using for service.  If the clark is simply a better unit though that is what we will get.


-------------------------
Vincent

Posted 15 Jan 2019 02:12 AM Reply  Report this message
duodeluxe


Take a look at Linde. They make a really nice three wheeler and they are super dependable. I'd still go with 48 volt. Once you get use to the speed you'll never use 36 volt again .

-------------------------
duodeluxe

Posted 15 Jan 2019 11:44 PM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States
the higher the voltage the higher the amp  draw.  The higher the  amp draw  the higher the heat & the higher the owners electrical bill to  run the charger.  Heat is an  enemy of  electronic or electrical components - like motor controllers and motor brushes.  48  v is very commonly seen  in forklifts in most countries around the world and 72 volt 7 80 v electrical system are no8 uncommon especially in the European market in larger  capacity lift 8K & above.    Today 24 volt  systems in 3 wheel forklifts are just about non existent.  The first three wheel units  introduced to the US market were by Clark & they all  had 24 v.  Soon competition copied them with 24 v models.  When  folks started introducing  higher volt units in the US market in 3 wheel models users were slow to  change over - US folks like to do like waste money on energy consumption but taht is  changing.  My son an electrician is installing more 960 volt systems in buildings (new buildings and some retros).   Europe  is moving goi towards 1080 v for in plant use.

Posted 16 Jan 2019 06:47 AM Reply  Report this message
duodeluxe


John- I think that this discussion has gotten a little to technical for Vinval as well as most of the general public looking for an opinion.
I'm assuming that you misspoke but if not... The Higher the Voltage, the Lower the amp draw. Fact.
I, like you, was in the business for many years and now am retired.
We almost exclusively sold 48 volt trucks while all of our competitors quoted 36 volt. Like propane, 36 volt is only a North American spec. Because our industry is soooo price competitive, the reason that our competitors quoted 36 volt is because they had the illusion that the corresponding battery and charger was cheaper than 48 volt which is not the case. If you price up an 800 ampere hour, 36 volt battery with a matching 3 phase charger, the price is within $50.00 of a 600 ampere hour 48 volt battery and matching charger. The kilowatt hours are identical. They both will do the same amount of work (or move the same amount of pallets per hour) but the 48 volt truck will do the work much faster. Once a typical customer uses a 48 volt truck, no matter what the capacity is, they will NEVER go back to a slower 36 volt unit. Because the industry is soooo competitive, you need something to set yourselves and for us it was 48 volt.

-------------------------
duodeluxe

Posted 16 Jan 2019 01:46 PM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States
@duodeluxe
1.  Yep I F/U but now I have corrected  the errors. of my way.  But  from  my  vantage point i think my explanation was more on track in answering why their were  voltage difference  in the 3 trucks mention  - two brands I never  heard of but I've been out of the business  11+ years.  The Chines  muck things up at times.
2.) Yes like you always presented the electric truck buyer with a  proposal on 36 v units  to provide them the same info "me too" sellers guess did and provided a separate proposal for the  same  unit  with  48 v at the same $  but with -   tangible customer benefits - then the discussions  & demo begin (48v unit)began.  Likewise, when a customer  wanted a 5K cushion LP proposal I provided a 5K electric truck proposal w/48 v to show  speeds were comparable and a ROI  via longer economic life (7y vs 5y), lower routine maintenance, fuel savings and more environmentally friendly, and a 7  year $1.00 option contract or FVF lease  and a possible greater depreciation tax deduction.
If my info  went  over the OPs head  that is OK, they certainly  have the option to ask  questions.  But in my book  it is  always better to  provide more info than not enough -


Posted 16 Jan 2019 09:16 PM Reply  Report this message
duodeluxe


I usually would not give options. I didn't want to compete with myself and didn't want to further confuse the customer from what the competitor(s) offered. Always quoted what I thought was best for their application.
The "Heinrich" is most likely a Jungheinrich which as a European company would only offer 48 volt. My experience has been that their parts pricing is way expensive and most US dealers have a major brand they represent and use Jungheinrich as a back up or fill in.


-------------------------
duodeluxe

Posted 16 Jan 2019 11:43 PM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States
To each their own.  
Never has been one way to close a deal - it all depends on what floats the boat  of the final decision maker(s) and if  a sales person  has a relationship with them or not - organizations  do play  musical chairs  every now & then  Lot of folks will make you think they are but they ain't.  Gotta' keep panning for gold.

Yep you are correct  the Heinrich EFG 113  is an Jungheinrich probably sold by an MCFA dealer.  The basic lift  capacity is 2400 lbs and there are  two 1920 lb models and a 2880 lb model in this  family.  The units are in fact all 24 V  and  no 48 v option and if I read correctly they are rear wheel drive units.  Junheinrich offer  36 v/ 48 v units in their EFG213- 220  series (2510 lb to 3880 lb lift  capacity series (front drive).

Right from the Jungheinrich  product brochure

"EFG 110/ 113/ 115

Rear-wheel drive, compact design, high performance data and optimum ergonomically optimised working conditions – these are the strengths of our EFG"

Modified 17 Jan 2019 01:34 PM
by poster.
Reply  Report this message
Vinval
New York, United States
After reading all of the great advice I recognize that the 48v would be a great machine.  However, we are most concerned with maneuverability with this unit.  The 48V is a larger machine.  Plus we have never had an issue with speed, probably since we are only a 35,000SQF warehouse with a lot of machinery and inventory.  
I believe it is all going to come down to the warranty and service at this point.  Down to the clark and mitsubihis 3 wheel 36v units.


-------------------------
Vincent

Posted 17 Jan 2019 01:22 AM Reply  Report this message
Vinval
New York, United States
OK guys, I was thrown a curve ball today.  One of the salesman came back with a 48V 3500lb Baoli.  This unit has a lot of positives, 48V, its with the service company we would prefer and it is $5,000 less then the clark.  Negatives is we have never heard of them.  Any thoughts?


-------------------------
Vincent

Posted 18 Jan 2019 01:50 AM Reply  Report this message
duodeluxe


The Baoli is a Chinese built truck which is serviced and distributed in the US by Linde dealers. I expect that aftermarket service, parts and support is probably among the best of all of the Chinese trucks that are offered in the US.

-------------------------
duodeluxe

Posted 18 Jan 2019 02:17 AM Reply  Report this message
Vinval
New York, United States
Good to hear as the service is my biggest concern.

-------------------------
Vincent

Posted 18 Jan 2019 02:43 AM Reply  Report this message
Forkingabout
england, United Kingdom
Toyota do offer a really nice 48 volt compact 3 wheel forklift with up to 2 ton lifting capacity - unfortunately its not available in the USA at the moment.

Its bigger European 80 volt 4 wheel brother is now available so maybe the USA will get the smaller 48 volt family of forklifts in the near future.




Posted 22 Jan 2019 02:37 AM Reply  Report this message


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