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DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Industry News & Whispers
Discussion:  Linde 10-16 tonne torque convertor
Number of messages: 91
Page: [1] 2 3 4 5
START MESSAGE:
happydays
Lincolnshire, United Kingdom
Anybody seen the launch of the new Linde 10-16 tonne torque converter
truck, made in China for the Global market?

Wonder if it is as robust as the 1401 hydrostatic it will probably replace

Posted 17 May 2015 07:40 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Don't think they have launched it yet . from what i know it has been designed out of Merhtyr , Then it will be built in China . At the moment China build the old torque converter truck .

Think it is a major step backwards for Linde, Linde talk about being the most advanced forklifts on the market but they keep going backwards First with the HT range torque converter from China now with the new big truck from China .

Only time will tell but i think this will be a big disaster for Linde . They should never of shut Merthyr they should have also made a couple of changes to 1402 to make it more competitive in the market if they had they would have over taken NACCO as number 1 in this range of trucks .


This all goes to show KION will have to make big changes if they want to over take Toyota at the top of the table . The perches they plan to make might only last for a year or so but to keep at the top they have to develop better more advanced and lower cost equipment not go back 20 years like they are doing  



Posted 18 May 2015 04:13 AM Reply  Report this message
danny_k
Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom
Talking of big trucks what happened to Dave and his Ilift or Shaw?
Was on here every five minutes now gone dead!

Posted 20 May 2015 06:24 AM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Hi due to a Confidentiality agreement with a major manufacturer on investment on the project we are not allowed to say much about this now .


What we can say is EXALT Materials Handling are to launch their new forklift rental web site later this year . Allowing Saudi Arabian business to be the first companies to benefit from the new iModlift forklift that are to be built locally in the Kingdom . ....some advertising has been deleted by Admin....

Also the first trucks will be ready later this year as a customer has already placed a order for quite a large number of trucks these will be 5,000kg truck with the larger trucks following in early next year .




Modified 20 May 2015 10:19 PM
by administrator.
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exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
I have herd that the new Linde 10 ton - 16 ton range will use the MTU engine and will be out later this year around the same time as the new ExaltiModlift 10 - 16 ton . What will be interesting is the Linde will be torque converter made in China and around 15000 Euro higher than the Exalt that will have the same engine and hydrostatic transmission with the same equivalent speck Electronic load sensing  Hydraulics full cab its going to be hard for Linde to match up

Posted 12 Jun 2015 08:12 PM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
I have herd that the new Linde 10 ton - 16 ton range will use the MTU engine and will be out later this year around the same time as the new ExaltiModlift 10 - 16 ton . What will be interesting is the Linde will be torque converter made in China and around 15000 Euro higher than the Exalt that will have the same engine and hydrostatic transmission with the same equivalent speck Electronic load sensing  Hydraulics full cab its going to be hard for Linde to match up

Posted 12 Jun 2015 08:12 PM Reply  Report this message
pierrekesty
Vlaanderen, Belgium
This is the best news that Linde recognizes they need to use converter as additional solution.   this is cannibalismus and destroys their hydrostatic image. let's see their decisions about it. only european or effective global?  

Posted 21 Jun 2015 07:45 AM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
i think you have got the wrong idea on this , this is not good for linde and will totally kill linde in the big truck market . It just gives the wrong impression to their customers . You have a customer looking for a couple of trucks say 3 5,000kg trucks and one 12,000 kg truck . they decide to look at three options Hystser hyundai and Linde . Linde is the highest priced truck but the sales person say's well you will save more over the life of the truck and have lower running cost as we are hydrostatic . Ther customer looks at this and say's OK that's agreeable. So the Hyster and hyundai reps say well Thats not really true to linde believe because on the 12,000 kg truck they have gone torque converter when they had a hydrostatic version the 1401, If Linde believe so much that hydrostsic is so good and they charge you more for this then why have they gone Torque converter . If Linde don't believe Hydrostatic is the best and they are promoting this with smaller trucks then why should you pay more when you can have a toeque converter range for less money .


Inside KION group there are many Brands and if KION which is ultimately Linde want to promote torque then they should have done this with another brand . This goes to show really Both KION and Linde don't understand the truck business . They might be Number two in the market on turnover soon to be number one but they don't really understand the market and this position was down to  older management and the German and France markets .


Its like the HT 25 Linde truck from China it has done more damage to the Linde brand than any other product . The new 10 - 16 ton truck will only add to this .

KION have made some very big mistakes in big truck markets over the last three to four years closing merhtyr was a disaster and get out of big trucks like container handling was too when you have liebberr showing what can be done in Reach stackers .


KION will spend money to get to number One Toyota will spend money to keep there  but this will only make both more acceptable to a competitor , Like apple samsung in mobile phones . like Uber to taxis . Will Toyota and KION be the Blackberry Nokia or the Black cabs of London

Modified 21 Jun 2015 09:51 PM
by poster.
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exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
The first sine of the new truck is on the Linde Australia web site , there not much info about the truck thow just a picture . the main change is there is no need for the vents behind the cab and under the cab as the MTU engine uses SCR so this might be under the engine like the Kalmar set up. Looks the same as the 1401 in shape with what look like a higher engine setting . There is also a new what looks like a lower cost cab as well This is of the 396 8 ton truck


Modified 23 Aug 2015 08:20 AM
by poster.
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Bucknut
Ohio, United States
Exalt has been talking about this new forklift he is bring to the market for how many years now? Seems to me if he would spend less time grinding his axe with Linde he would have his new unit out by now.

Posted 22 Aug 2015 01:56 AM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Well Bucknut Nice you live up to your name , I'm not grinding any axe with Linde just pointing out facts that linde have claimed for years and i agree with that hydrostatics are better than torque  converters been proven in so many test's . Linde has lost their way why produce a truck in China then try to sell it to the US i have noticed that the German dealers don't wont to know this truck and if the customers in the states want Chinese i suggest Helli do a good truck so do Sany

as for our truck i take it you have never tried to produce a forklift never mind one that is more advanced than any other , but don't worry we have produced four now  we have two five tone trucks and two seven ton truck out in the field being tested by us so thanks for the input


Please if you have ever tried this do let us know


One point Bucknut do you work for Linde in the US and just realised how do you sell the 396 H70 which is hydrostatic and then to the same customer try to sell the 1411 H120 torque Converter good luck with that one

Modified 23 Aug 2015 06:17 AM
by poster.
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Forkingabout
england, United Kingdom
So few people want torque convertor fork lift trucks these days.

Hydrostat is now so in demand, even Toyota have bowed to pressure & started offering a choice of either hydrostat OR torque convertor on the smaller Tonero trucks.

Linde hydrostatic trucks where really highly regarded here in Europe, why they would want to start fitting a torque convertor & damaging there brand image is beyond me.

Posted 23 Aug 2015 05:44 AM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Thank you Forkingabout Linde have for years been pointing out how good Hydrostatics are and I must agree with them all testes i have seen point to hydrostatics being more productive lower overall running costs easier maintenance Toyata have had hydrostatics for years with Casab and have now adopted them to Toyota


So why if you believe in something do you go the other way. WHY because now you are a Chinese company and low cost manufacturing is all important . The Linde 1411 truck is openly said to be made in China so if you want a Chinese truck why not buy a Sany or a Helli    


If you are in the US and want a good value truck then look at Taylor TX series

Modified 23 Aug 2015 06:08 AM
by poster.
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exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
One point i have noticed is the only web site of Linde you can see this truck is Linde Australia, Not KION usa not Linde main web site not even linde heavy lift truck web site , so if Linde are not shooting about this trucks from the roof tops then why not .


If you bring out a product you believe in then say so has Linde done this no . Do linde really believe in this truck well that's to be seen  

Modified 24 Aug 2015 00:29 AM
by poster.
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higherandhigher
South Carolina, United States
This truck will not be replacing the current hydrostat. It's purpose is to come in at a significantly lower price point to open the customer base for heavy trucks in less aggressive environments where a hydrostat isn't always needed. The quality and standards I have been told will be no different to the 1401 hydrostat. The first trucks will be arriving in the next few months and some demo's are now in process with very positive results.

The lack of 'shouting' is not through lack of belief in the truck, their passion was unmistakable. KION are serious and with their resources from what I've seen, this will be a good addition to the marketplace.

Posted 3 Sep 2015 00:57 AM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
I think you are right it has been made to enter the market at a lower price than the hydrostatic truck, but so are Maximal, Sany, and Heli all Chinese made trucks . so it still goes if you want a lower cost truck then go for one of these because the Linde will be much dearer . It will see on how the price reflects against Hyster/Yale and Kalmar  or the Doosan or Hyundai

Linde moved the production of the 1401 hydrostatic truck to Czech to lower cost . In the KION 20 20 program one of the aims is to make KION the most profitable forklift manufacture it looks like they want to do this by moving production to lower cost manufacturing instead of developing ways to reduce manufacturing costs' . What will be interesting will be the response from Taylor who build a good quality truck for value .

Linde still have not shown any real believe in the truck they have heavily promoted the new R14 - R20 reach truck but have yet to show in a little bit of support for this new truck . the Absence of support leaves the question still open why not

Modified 3 Sep 2015 04:24 AM
by poster.
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higherandhigher
South Carolina, United States
Remember that just because it's built in China, it's not another generic low quality Chinese truck. Chinese manufacturing if done correctly can build some of the most intricate high quality products in the world, look at Apple for example. Or look at Audi, I doubt an A4 made in China is any different to A4 made in Germany/Czech.

The truck will be a league above Maximal, Heli, Sany as it has the Linde brand and engineering team behind it. The KION brand Baoli in those markets would be aimed at that level of competition, but even then it has KION standards to uphold so it's hard to compare.

I believe that it'll be priced at Hyster /Yale with the aim of beating the current industry leader Taylor in every possible metric.

We all look forward to some side by side benchmarking!

Modified 3 Sep 2015 04:37 AM
by poster.
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exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Yes you can say that some quality products do come out of China but you can't just pick and choose what products are quality and what aren't . In fact Sany produce their big truck in Germany . Is a kalmar 16,000kg forklift produced in China a poor quality truck  Taillift is now owned by Toyota so are these trucks now as high as quality as a Toyota

When Apple went to enter the mobile phone market they did not look at the market leaders and say well we will just copy these and produce in China . They developed a better product that answered THE CUSTOMERS QUEST FOR MORE  . What KION have done is in fact looked at what sells best in North America and just produced the same . But how will this effect the hole Linde product range when Linde on one hand say to a customer who wants a 7,000kg truck its a higher price but overall it will be lower when life time costs are looked at . then say to the same customer well this is a lower price because we are matching Hyster / yale  and to beat Taylor . How can they hope to beat Taylor with the same technology . KION have a hole range of companies to compete in different areas of the market so are you saying a KION Baoli truck is as good a a KION Linde truck made in china . If not then why not both are made by KION so the standard should be the same . What linde have said before is that the technology used in the Linde truck is better allowing for lower overall life time costs but they can't say that with this new truck thats one reason they have said nothing , some one once said if you can't say anything good then say nothing at all Linde have done this quite well with the new 10- 16 ton truck. A VW car made in Czech is the same quality as a Skoda


Modified 3 Sep 2015 05:15 AM
by poster.
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higherandhigher
South Carolina, United States
I don't think you'll ever be convinced either way, or with any arguments / facts.

Until the final truck is on US soil and has been tested by KION / Linde engineers then it makes no sense to start creating noises in the market. It'll be relatively low volume in year 1 in a new segment, the best approach is to be cautious, don't overpromise and focus on quality. This I believe is what they'll do and when it proves it's worth it'll be a much easier sell over the competition.

I for one look forward to driving the truck and benchmarking before I sell it to my customers. As it stands now and considering what I know I am quietly optimistic.

Posted 3 Sep 2015 05:14 AM Reply  Report this message
exalt
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
These are fair points but Linde have been developing this for some time ,

But how do you answer the question to your customer who says yes i will look at this new truck how different is it to the Hyster / yale , Taylor or kalmar . Then why if Torque is so good why do i have to pay a premium for the smaller hydrostatic trucks why not just sell all torque converter trucks . Linde have always said and in my mind have been correct hydrostatic truck offer better value for money in overall life time cost . But what they are saying to the market with this is OK we can't beat the competitors so we will match them and hope you will buy it . You were right in one point the numbers will be low volume . Linde had seen the big truck sale fall from over 400 in 2007 to under 100 in 2013 now they are hoping to increase with a truck that has the same tech as their competitors but is not really in the Linde image . i think you are going to need a lot of luck trying to convince your customers in fact i think this will damage the Linde brand rather than enhance it. KION would be just better selling every thing now under the KION brand  

Linde are now also going to have to contend with the new Konecranes Terex truck in this market who again will look at price


So Ok you have a customer he is looking for two new trucks a 7,000kg and a 12,000 kg truck how do you sell him the new Linde against a Cat, a Hyster/Yale , a kalmar and a Taylor . before you could say how the Linde overall life time cost's will be lower , the more efficiency of the Linde truck , the better safety of the Linde truck all due to the hydrostatic transmission . but you can't say that now because the new 12 ton truck has torque transmission  

Modified 3 Sep 2015 05:42 AM
by poster.
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