Jon, I think that you are wrong, this is a powered pallet truck and not a forklift, if we were to go down the road you're thinking of how on earth do business's use the powered pallet truck that just has a stand on platform?

If I recall (seven dly sins) that main reason why limbs should not be placed outside of a guard is that you could get them caught between a piller and the OHG for example. This will not occur on a Pedestrian truck. Also consider Low level order pickers for instance would these be outlawed? Because these allow movement whilst youre not even on the machine!
( creep buttons with self centering steering)

So please can we try to be clear what were are saying here. I agree if we are talking Counter Balance BUT not Pedestrian operated.

As a H&S Officer and Fork Lift truck Trainer, I can fully understand the issues you have. Your primary goal with this issue is to look after your own health & safety as well as your workmates. If you dont feel safe using it then tell someone. Were any of you consulted before the equipment was purchased? There seems to be a number of misconseptional purchases happening recently, where senior managment buy pieces of kit in and either think that the workforce have the necessary skills and training or think "Yes, they'll be okay using this" and not think of the bigger picture.

You are right in saying that no part of the body must be outside of the protection of the truck. (see "7 Deadly Sins" and basic flt training).

The BITA truck users group can be a real help in situations like this they canhelp put presure on the truck people and the management at a site if neccessary.
Check out the website for details....

JOe - m are you a salesman for your own product or services.?

I would highly recommend your contacting the manufacturer to ask if they have an factory kit that can be field installed to better protect the operator.
I know of 2 lift truck manufacturers that do provide an optional kit for their model of electrics and quite possibly your manufacturer may have as well.
It is very possible that a dealer's rep may not be aware of the options and sometimes answers can be too quickly given without knowledge or research so....go to the manufacturer to get an answer. Most of them have a website where you can "contact them" with a question.

I would agree, A thorough RA should be carried out, just because the body is outside does not infer that the truck is unsuitable, consider stand on platform trucks for instance. You are open to the elements on one of these little trucks. Provided the management are pulling up operatives (as should you or anyone who see's someone being a numbty - remembering we are all responsible) if they are operating the trucks irresponsibly and suitably cautioned, they should be fine. Remember that a Safe System Of Work should also accompany the RA, this should say that when operatives are in positions of Risk ( Local Conditions - i.e. Aisles -pedestrian crossing walkways )- they (the operator) should act with caution and slow down, paying more attention to his/her surroundings.

You could already argue that the person is already half way out of the truck in the first instance, again a reference to this in a RA should cover this. Special attention should be applied when working near CB trucks that stacking - destacking.

You do not say wether the truck is a fully seated on or not - I would guess its the latter. You should get in an independent to view.

You should also use historical evidence to decide how much of a risk is involved, however the only proviso with this method is people always blame the truck when an incident has happened - brakes failed! is the usual culprit. It is more likely that speeding is the culprit. These ones obviously should be disregarded if any doubt arises as to its integrity. If however the brakes actually did fail, how often has it occurred? - once only is a very low risk if you account of the 24/7x365 status of your operating unit. Similarly more caution should be applied when poor weather prevails, Power Pallet Trucks are especially prone to skidding on wet floor surfaces as is any ppt/cb which has no treads (show me a warehouse that doesnt have one leak and I'll show you my 300 yr old PC!)

Another point worth considering, is that in general people are getting larger, this has the obvious ramifications of body parts overhanging the cab. Again local assessments should made.

The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 (PUWER) states that
"1) Every employer shall ensure that work equipment is so constructed or adapted as to be suitable for the purpose for which it is used or provided.

2) In selecting work equipment, every employer shall have regard to the working conditions and to the risks to the health and safety of persons etc etc."

Risk assessment is a big part of the management of health and safety at work which is an employers responsibility. Suggest that you request that a risk assessment is conducted for the application.

Carlos, I am with you on this, and congratulate you on your courage to "take on" your management armed with principles that would certainly impress the more senior managers.

You've brought up a "human performance issue" that will only be resolved, in my opinion, by getting someone with enough organizational authority to "do right" by your operators. This may mean that such an authority has the formal power to eat the bad capital investment, and get the right trucks into place. I suggest that those who are "only concerned with the cost" or are unconcerned with the issue of limbs outside the vehicle, probably NEVER operated a forklift...or were NEVER accountable for the safety of others. In my book, if you are the one charged with making such decisions, and you do not do the right thing, you deserve to be labeled as a caloused human being with wonton disregard for people who have to operate trucks that you've provided.

What gives such a person the right to make such decisions when THEY are NOT the one who will be injured or killed while operating the truck? If I were an operator, I would resent that my "large" and probably profitable company is allowing this situation to undermine my ability to stay injury free. Something is surely wrong with this situation! I wager that the Board of Directors, or even responsible stockholders, would NOT want this situation to exist. Perhaps it would be effective to appeal to someone who has such clout. It is about doing the right thing... as embarrasing as it might be for the original "deciding manager" to take some lumps. Good luck trying to resolve this.

In the future, BEFORE buying new makes or models of trucks, I will make it my practice to recommend that an organizational policy be put in place that requires real operators to be able to pass a validated on-truck operator test in the environment where the new model truck might be used. This would save you and other companies making new fleet purchases a repeat of the pain such lack of policy causes. For more information on this type of operator test, surf the internet with keyword LIFTOR. Best wishes.

Unfortunately the people who do the buying seem to be only concerned with cost !!
Just had an interesting development... I have managed to find a statement in amongst the manufacturers literature which was supplied with a similar model rider operated pallet truck and it clearly states in black & white that "the operator must keep his head & limbs inside the confines of the machine at all times". This literature is for a similar machine that is used for the same operation in the same building and it arrived with a brand new truck. Surely my colleagues and I are correct in insisting that the manufacturers issue a statement which clarifies this situation, especially in light of this literature.

No doubt, this is a tough situation.
Of course you're not going to get management to sign a piece of paper declaring the equipment as "safe". Duh! Safe is a relative term and no piece of equipment is absolutely safe.

As a trainer, you need to train the operators on the potential hazards of the specific equipment and environment in which they work. Most motorized pallet trucks have no operator safety cage at all, yet in the appropriate environment with the appropriate training they can be reasonably safe. That being said, there are environments where these same trucks do not offer a reasonable safety level and therefore should not be used.

I think you need to look at the vehicles and your specific application and make some type of determination as to whether or not they are reasonably safe with proper training. I realize that "reasonably safe" is subjective. If in the end, you feel the use of these trucks create too high a risk, you shouldn't use them, period. Whether or not someone else signed a piece of paper saying they are safe doesn't change anything. Be aware that refusing to use them is a pretty strong stance and may result in some very bad things happening to your career within that organization. Life isn't always fair.

I know it's a little late to say this, but didn't you folks at least try a demo vehicle before purchasing a bunch of these?

Thanks for showing an interest guys. We have been using this type of pallet truck for many years now and have a very robust training package in place. The course and subsequent test is based upon the RTITB counter balance forklift course. Because we have 36 trucks of differing sizes in constant use 24/7 in an ever changing environment we are very strict in enforcing a "no limbs outside the cab" policy, especially as some years ago there was an accident on site and one of our operators injured his knee because it was outside the protective area of the cab. The problem is with the introduction of this new equipment from a different manufacturer the vast majority of our operators will have some part of their body outside the cab area - something which we have gone at great lengths to eliminate. However management are saying that the contract has been signed and that we have to use this equipment. Which as you can see contradicts the training that we currently give. My colleagues and I are holding out untill we receive something in writing that takes the liability for any future injuries of this type away from us.
I must admit I do thing asking the insurance company to take the lead on the situation could be a suitable solution.
Any other ideas ?

Hi Carlos, I take that the truck has all the relevant info as suggested by daniel??. If this is the case then you would need to assess the training to be given to your operatives and may also need to risk assess the areas that they will be working in. It is a problem with this type of truck, but with trained operatives and a sensible road layout, it should not be a problem.

The machine would need to conform to the EN Machinery directive (CE Regs) and as such this covers design criteria for operators compartments, and so this would be the first point to double check.

If the machine conforms, which no doubt it does then I would suggest that if your companies insurance company is happy with the unit and your local HSE also then can you really continue to hold this stance?

If the operators guide, service info, a sticker on the machine or even better a CE certificate possibly sent with the machine detail that the machine conforms, then you have as much as the Manufacturer needs to provide to state the machine is safe in its design.