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DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Lifting machines
Discussion:  Clark vs. Yale / Shopping a new Forklift.
Number of messages: 22
Page: [1] 2
START MESSAGE:
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Hello,
Nice to see a website/message board dedicated to forklifts. My hats off to the administration. Very nice.

I am in the process of shopping a 5000lb forklift. The two brands that I am currently looking at are Clark & Yale.

I have three Clark units that have been in service since the early 80's and still going strong today. This is why I would consider the Clark brand today.

I know that Clark has had there up's & down's over the past 20 years.
Can anyone shed some light on the Clark units built today?

Also, the lift truck company that maintains my machines sell Yale forklifts. The dealer dropped off a demo yesterday. It appears to be a nice unit and it handles very nicely in some of the tight areas in my warehouse.
Is there anything good or bad that I need to know about the Yale brand?

Also, do you guy's feel one is better than the other? Easier maintanance? Parts?

Thanks in advance for you input.

Jake

Posted 19 Feb 2007 05:47 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
danny_k
Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom 		Hi
In my opionion I would go for the Clark because of the folowing reasons;
1/ Clark parts are better priced than Yale (do a comparison)
2/ The new Yale trucks are over complicated and full of electronics and require dealer only diognosis equipment. Clark trucks do not have all this.
3/ Clark trucks have a very heavy duty build about them and are not all plastic.
4/The proof of Clark has been your good experience with your current trucks.

Posted 23 Feb 2007 03:08 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Danny,

Thanks for your input. I agree with leaning toward the Clark although I am finding that the local dealers in my area really have yet to be desired.  

One dealer, (the one I have delt with for years), has gone out of business and the next local dealer, (160 miles away), really seems to be having problems with ordering a unit to my spec.

As for Yale, the dealer has been prompt with his proposal and ordering time. Also, he left us a demo model for us to try out. It's been at our yard for two weeks now! I guess he really would like to sell us a machine.
As for the electronics, yes you are correct. It is loaded with them.

As for the Clark brand, I have been pleased with the performance of my older units.  I'm not really ready to change brands now but as for service, the Yale destributor seems to be out doing Clark. I will keep you posted.

Jake

-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 1 Mar 2007 01:02 PM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		When it comes to product quality look at the Clark - compare the weight of the machine you will see a difference - of 600 lbs. or the size of 2 NFL line men), the thickness of teh frame side plates, mast intergrity - larger channes more side thrust rollers, metal step gripes vs sand paper, steer axle - Clark wins.  Or pay me now or pay them a lot more as long as you own the truck.

The dealer does make the difference- if the Dealer in your area is Eastern Lift they are very good at what they do to Keep the customer up and running - I've know them since them since the late 60's.   Clark in New Jersey and Philly area ain't there no more.  Don't know who the replacemant is or are.

-------------------------
"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 2 Mar 2007 06:47 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		John,

Eastern Lift is the company that I have been using for all of my service and repair work lately. They are also the company who has quoted me on a Yale machine.

Industrial Lift was the Clark dealer who went out of business last year. One of their best techs went to work for Eastern. That's why they do my repair work now as well as PM work. It's been great! No aggravation at all.

As for the closest Clark dealer, well they are located out of state in Pennsylvania. My concern is that I have not heard too much good being said about that dealership. (My source is reliable).

I do have a quote from them and the pricing is inline with the Yale, (as well as Nissan & Cat), but I really am concerned about getting involved with a dealership that could be a problem.

Thanks

Jake

-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 2 Mar 2007 11:02 AM Reply  Report this message
duodeluxe
New Hampshire, United States

 		The answer is simple; buy the truck that you like from the salesman that you trust that works for the company that you believe that will support your purchase the best.
My guess is that if you get more quotes, the pricing will be in line with the ones that you already have since most trucks are priced the same and most dealers are working on a very small profit margin of about 5%.
My suggestion is to allow the dealer to make a decent profit (more that 5%), don't ask them too jump through too many hoops and to make your decision in a short amount of time.
Lets have a show of hands dealers; how many deals a year do you have that match the above criteria? Maybe 5. It is such a breath of fresh air to find a customer like that. Those are the ones that usually get the best after sales service and support.
Most new forklift truck buyers belabor their investigative reporting to an extreme that they might be better served to put 5 names in a hat and pick one. It really isn't a science to buy a forklift truck....or anything else for that matter...even gypsum.

-------------------------
gitrucks@adelphia.net

Posted 3 Mar 2007 00:42 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Rich,

The answer being simple? Maybe yes, maybe no. My concern is that I keep equipment for a long time. Much longer than most.

1) Truck that I like?
     Clark because of my history with the brand although today's units are a complete different animal.
      I do like the Yale from operation of the machine, access to engine and trans, and even the actual look of the unit.

2) As for the salesmen, both seem to have the knowledge of their product and are willing to work on the numbers. I have known the Yale salesman for several years. (through the service dept).

3) The Yale dealership is the same company who has been performing my service over the past several years. They are a proven company to me for service. That's a plus for a product that I'm not that familiar with.

I don't doubt that the percentage a salesman makes could be somewhat low but that's not my problem. It all depends on what they feel that they can afford to do.
The Yale salesman did drop his price and also opted to deliver his Yale product with solid pneumatic tires. That's a big plus!

Purchasing a peice of equipement can be a little involved when it comes to my methods but I always believed that one needs to watch every penny. Once this is done, the dollars will watch themselves. It's always worked for me in the past.

As for drywall. That's nothing but a game anymore. Six months ago there wasn't enough around, plus it's value was up. Now days the demand is low and several new manufacturing plants came online. The pricing has dropped like a rock!

Thanks

Jake

-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 3 Mar 2007 11:43 AM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		Jake Gypsum -   You make the comments.
"I don't doubt that the percentage a salesman makes could be somewhat low but that's not my problem."

"The Yale salesman did drop his price and also opted to deliver his Yale product with solid pneumatic tires. That's a big plus! "

This implies the following - I like knowedgeable sales representatives to call on me and consult with  me but I really don't care if he makes enough to pay his mortgage, gas bill, etc.  to get to your place and he is a "good ol boy" when he drops his price - reducing his commission.

The sales representative is generally your key link between your company and his dealership - he is in fact part of the "total" package.  That should be something more than minimal wage.   At 5% margin ain't nobady getting rich - better off buying a 6 month CD.

Yes I am a sales type - I value my time spent on consulting with customers, meeting with them, surveying applications, soving issues for that a $74.46 per hour - the travel time is valueded at $0.  I set my price with a given margin.  But that is it - no more no less - if it is going to be a bid war I walk away & go to the next one.  If a prospect requests a quote now as he has to get 3 bids and won't tell me what issues need to solved to get the order or who the real decision maker is is - I walk away.  They have already made up their mind & they are just satisfying some sort of "purchasing" policy.  Price is not generally the main issue for a company to change suppliers - any body can beat the lowest price out there on any given day.  I have gotten orders because I have made that stand.

Food for thought.  If a sales preson dropped his price and added solid pneumatics  (these ain't cheap)- his first offers may have been have not been in your best instest from the start - what will he do to you later on???  Or will you see another rep. in 6 months or less.

Oh it seems like you like it best when your margins are high & things get tougher when the margins are very low - hard to pay bills.  Commissioned sales people know the feeling too!


-------------------------
"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 9 Mar 2007 07:40 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		John,

I apologize right off the top.
I did not post this thread to "hammer" anybody or their profession. I'm am truly sorry.

I am a brand new member to this website and forum. The last thing that I would wan't to do is start a flame war or be a troll.  Not my intentions at all.

I grew up in the drywall installation & supply business. One of the many things that my father instilled in me back in the day was to watch every penny. It's something that I have always done.

We are not a big company by any means but we did evolve and grow by saving and watching what was spent. I learned a lot by simple practices like paying a bill early and saving 2%.

As for the statement towards a salesman, I simply referred to the fact that any salesman should know his or her bounderies.
If they are willing to sell a product and not produce the percentage that they need to produce in a profit margin, then that's just bad practice in my book. I don't think anybody would go to a car dealership and purchase a car for the price on the sticker.
As for changing suppliers just for pricing, that's never a good thing. You need to know the product. I just don't agree to a price that is out there for anybody to pay without questioning it first.


John, I agree that relationships are inportant. That is why I am looking at the Yale product. The sales rep as well as the service reps and the techs at Eastern Lift here in New Jersey have earned this from me.

Clark vs. Yale in pricing? The Clark was cheaper with the solid pneumatic tires. Not by much but enough.
The problem with Clark is that they were having trouble delivering a product with my specs. I am looking at gasoline units.
As I'm sure you know, there isn't much demand for gasoline units so evedently this thing is built to suit. Both Clark and Yale were 8 weeks although Clark had additional issues that lead to a much longer time frame for delivery.  

Bottom line, it's a package that you receive with the purchase.
Not just a forklift, but a service & relationship as well. Agreed!

Bid wars stink! I'm in sales too. The construction trade isn't any different on that end.  

Jake





-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 10 Mar 2007 05:32 AM Reply  Report this message
vxtech
Virginia, United States 		jake,  it seems your main focus is price which is understandable,but when you weigh out the features and cost  comparison on yale and clark (representing & servicing yale line for 13 yrs) you will reap the rewards on purchasing yale product, however a lease & gm program maybe a better option than actually purchasing,and also af far as standing behind product i had a customer in RhodeIsland that had a GDP 300 db  series truck that had a slight clunk noise in differential that customer didn't like field rep showed up and offered  3yr additional warranty on truck or we will  replace $13000.00 diff free of charge  customers choice, customer selected replacement so a rockwell /meritor diff was OVERNIGHTED to customer location next day, $1800.00 freight charge, so total peace of mind was given to customer,so if you say the yale dealership is treating you right,just don't brush them off for a few hundred bucks,i won't bash clark its just there financial troubles and restructuring might make you wonder , here today gone tommorrow, with that being said i will let you explore your options   thanks chris

Posted 10 Mar 2007 02:51 PM Reply  Report this message
danny_k
Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom 		Financial troubles, Clark? Maybe a few years ago vxtech but you obviousley dont know a lot about the new owners of Clark do you? The new owner is the Young An group which is a huge organization which includes Daewoo bus company, Young An hats (which is the largest hat manufacturer in  the word and makes 75 % of base ball hats) a telecomunications company, the list goes on.
I agree the case was so a few years ago, but not now, please get your facts right.
When it comes down to cost the clark would win, I know we run a mixed hire fleet with both makes in.
Look at the cost of parts (eg- radiator for Clark 3000KG diesel £98.00 please ask sales rep for price on Yale item, I would guess it would be in the region of £400.00)
Also the Clark is more basic and not full of electronics like thye Yale and you would not be tied to a dealer to look after the machine because it requires no laptop fault finding like the Yale.

Posted 10 Mar 2007 08:40 PM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Chris,

Interesting story about that forklift differential replacement.
I had a similar situation with a Cat 3126b engine in a  F-650 Ford truck that was only a year old.

Eastern Lift who I have been dealing with for several years appears to be an outfit of similar caliber.

As for leasing vs. purchase, I agree that there are financial benefits to leasing.
I'm more towards purchase. I guess that you can call it an "old school" type of thinking.

Jake

-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 11 Mar 2007 03:20 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Danny,

I read an article somewhere on the net about the Young An group. They do have some big plans for the future of Clark.

I did see one of the new Clark machines. They do seem to be well built but I wasn't too keen on how they plumbed the side shifter on the unit I checked out. The pipes were right next to the front wheel. It looked that if something were to get wrapped in the wheel, the plumbing could be compromised. Just my thought.

As for the cost of parts compared between the two brands, the pricing can be that different? Wow! Seems kind of extreme but not doubtful.

Jake



-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 11 Mar 2007 03:26 AM Reply  Report this message
danny_k
Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom 		Yes the price can be that different, thats why we have taken up the sole Clark dealership for our area.
The piping you have seen must have been a hose reel set up, the standard setup is internally piped and is a very good set up as always on clark masts.
On the point of masts look at a Clark mast, the set up hasnt been changed for years, why because it is a very strong and reliable set up, i bet you havnt had to have many mast rebuilds on your current machines have you?
I have a customer who runs new type Hysters (same as Yale) and have had mast roller failures at 2500-3000 hours.

Posted 11 Mar 2007 04:09 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Danny,

No hose reel set up on this machine. The Rep stated that this was the internal configuration. Everything else was basically hidden. It was only the two pipes down by the right wheel that kind of stood out.

Yes I agree, the mast & carrage seemed to be very similar to yesterdays Clark applications.

As for the mast & rollers on all of my machines, I have only had to replace the rollers from time to time. Never rebuilt a mast. The rollers are simple too. It takes about a hour to replace a set of outer rollers. Not much down time at all.

Jake


-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Modified 11 Mar 2007 04:18 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
vxtech
Virginia, United States 		danny, like i said in previous post i would not bash clark product,your information on yale requiring laptop for diagnostics is untrue all faults are displayed on dash display with a numerical fmi number  all you need is a fault book to isolate location of fault then practical testing is done, laptop is really only needed for programming hardware addons, like 3 mini lever to 4 minilever set up,almost all real time stats of truck,oil pres,alt output,trans clutch pressures can all be done using trucks own dash display,= thats probably why all the fancy electronics,not to mention united states epa emission laws concerning industrial forklifts,so i think you will be seeing all those electronics on clark soon to comply with epa laws , chris

Posted 11 Mar 2007 07:41 AM Reply  Report this message
JakeGypsum
New Jersey, United States

 		Well guys, I made a move.

I decided to go with the Yale product. It's a Veracitor GPO50VX.
This unit is a 5,000lb capacity gasoline truck with a two-stage clear veiw mast w/ integrel side shifter.

Primary purchase reason: The business relationship that I have had with the Yale dealer over the past several years.
I feel comfortable with their support for this machine which has been proven with the past support of my older Clark units.
Pricing between the two units was comperable. The numbers were the same.

Jake




-------------------------
80' Clark C500-YS80,
86' Clark C500-YS100,
87' Clark GPS20I,
07' Yale Veracitor GPO50VX.

Posted 13 Mar 2007 01:49 PM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		vxtech -
Realtive to your comment Clark is "here to day gone tomorrow".
Fact:  They have been in the material handling business since 1917 & still around - they have made some very nice changes in the last few years - new products and more coming.
Fact:  Clark got the Terex "monkey" off their back.
Fact:  Thanksto the Youn An Hat Co., they now own their own US headquarters/production facility in Lexington, Ky & a first class parts distribution facility in Louisville, KY.     Give them a parts order by 5:30 pm & they can have it shipped out the same night - parts facility is just 50 yards from Fed Ex air freight.  Not bad service - EH! as they say in Canada
Fact:  Wasn't Yale part of the Eaton, Yale & Towne group at one time??
Fact:  Didn't Yale get bought out by NACCO?  Is NACCO happy owning two lift truck companies?  Ask their board of directors!  
Fact:  Just about all the lift truck companies have gone thru their own recessions but survived - a few did not, like White Mobilift (didn't keep up with the changing industry) & Allis-Chalmers - thanks to David C. Scott & company.
Fact:  Caterpillar Lift Trucks had a choice (aka directive from Perioa) 1. Find someone to buy them or 2) Close the doors in Mentor, O.  They ventured w/Mitsubishi to survive.

-------------------------
"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 14 Mar 2007 01:19 PM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		vxtech
Just to bring you up to date -  Clark units have been EPA Tier I & Tier  compliant - LP & diesel.   They were complied the same time as all other lift ruck companies did.   So they have all have "black" boxes, triple pass catalytic convertors and on board diagnostics like y'alls do.
And all their sit down rider electrics (3 & 4 wheeled) are 100% A-C motor (drive/hydraulic/steering motors) controlled as standard.
As the sone songs - "What A Difference A Day Makes"

-------------------------
"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 14 Mar 2007 01:33 PM Reply  Report this message
professor
Virginia, United States 		john,the statement of epa was to danny concerning UNITED KINGDOM, i am aware of epa compliant trucks in UNITED STATES, ac  motors are great for industry  just gives  more time to fix other poorly engineered areas of forklift  which every manufacturer has,nacco basicly bought hyster,larger capacity truck market-strong market of empty container handlers that yale doesn't offer, as for them being happy i guess - payroll deductions with down sizing engineering faculty would post higher earnings with job cuts- money makes me happy ,so i guess there happy,good luck with the  green machine

Posted 18 Mar 2007 09:49 AM Reply  Report this message
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