Storing your login information automatically.

When you select the 'Remember me' option, your login information will be stored on your computer in the form of a cookie. When you visit Forkliftaction.com again, the stored login information will be retrieved automatically and you will not have to submit your login parameters (email address and password) each time you want to visit our members-only pages.

A cookie is a small piece of data that is sent to your browser from a web server and stored on your computer's hard drive. A cookie can't read data off your hard disk or read cookie files created by other sites. Cookies do not damage your system.

Marketplace
Business Directory
Discussion Forums
Spec-Checker
Industry News
Events Calendar
Jobs & Resumes
Photo Galleries
Marketplace
Business Directory
Discussion Forums
Home
My profile
Search
Spec-Checker
Industry News
Events Calendar
Jobs & Resumes
Photo Galleries
News service and business centre for materials handlingHOME
Search  
DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Industry News & Whispers
Discussion:  Quality of LP gas
Number of messages: 18
START MESSAGE:
Stacker
Nebraska, United States 		With the new emissions standards has anyone noticed that the quality of the LP gas must be a lot better then it had been in the past in order to for trucks to perform. Seems to me that either the quality of LPgas has changed or the new emmission standards are effecting the performance of lift trucks.

Posted 11 Nov 2010 03:24 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
joe_d
Texas, United States

 		I agree. I've had some serious problems with my tier 3s. I know on the old empcos, when doing the PM, you could remove a plug at the bottom of the regulator to drain some of the honey out but  there isn't one on the woodward (there is one that could be used for that but due to the regulator being mounted upside down it ends up on top...they call it a pressure port on Clarks). I wonder if there's a filtration system that can be installed in line?

-------------------------
Ain't nothing I can't fix but a broken heart and the break of day!

Posted 11 Nov 2010 03:53 AM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		Low grade LPG fuel contains excessive tars (honey as you say) and mess-up things.    Many of the Japanese lift trucks had a device up thru the 1990's called a tar trap.   The purpose was to collect the tar in the line between the tank & primary regulator.  This trap had a drain plug on the bottom so the tar residue could be periodically drained.
You may want to talk to various LPG suppliers in you area about this issue to see who has the "good stuff" & who don't.  Another suggestion is do a Google search on how you can determine what is good or not.

-------------------------
"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Modified 11 Nov 2010 05:04 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
joe_d
Texas, United States

 		Yeah, did that, John. They all said they had the best stuff and said they could prove it through their filtration records.

-------------------------
Ain't nothing I can't fix but a broken heart and the break of day!

Posted 11 Nov 2010 06:05 AM Reply  Report this message
Stacker
Nebraska, United States 		We actually had the LP tested at the well head and it is withing guide lines. Does anyone notice if the tempature makes a difference

Posted 11 Nov 2010 07:42 AM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		joe d - Did you or anyone get a copy of those reports or even see one to compare ?    If the say they have reports to prove it - start thinking like you are from Missouri & do that "Sho' Me Thing".
Have you ever heard a sales person say they sell crap?

-------------------------
"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 11 Nov 2010 01:31 PM Reply  Report this message
edward_t
South Carolina, United States

 		Stacker, there is no doubt that engine coolant (and as a result, the LPG regulator) temp makes a lot of differneces in how much "goop" cracks out of LPG fuel. there is also a pressure problem that can be introduced when a gravity feed tank fill process is used outside in low temps, and then the filled LPG tank brought into a warm building and allowed to reach "room temp".
there is no government body that checks to be sure the LPG that is claimed to be hd-5 really is, as far as I know.

-------------------------
webhome = http://forktechs.com
"it's not rocket surgery"

Posted 11 Nov 2010 09:21 PM Reply  Report this message
Jeff
Georgia, United States

 		We've seen higher tar content, both due to fuel quality and higher engine temps.   Within the last 2 years we have also seen higher sulfur content.  Sulfur content is required by CARB to be 80ppm or lower and we have seen test results as high as 213ppm.   But of course the supplier claimed his fuel was pure.   I am not a fan of bigger government, but the only way to cure this is that the LPG Industry needs to be regulated just like the gasoline industry was many many years ago.

-------------------------
There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept. 
-Ansel Adams

Posted 11 Nov 2010 10:04 PM Reply  Report this message
WMC1
California, United States 		We see a lot of problems here in CA with dirty vaporizers, clogged injectors, etc. One problem is that techs neglect draining the vaporizers on PM's. Still, fuel quality is a big problem. All of the local LP suppliers will initially tell you that their product is the best. When you question them a little though, it becomes clear tat they have no clue. Most are just selling the cheapest stuff they can get. It might work fine for a barbeque but not in a lift truck fuel system. I saw a statement from one person at the state level saying that there were regulations in place so there should be no problems. Problem is nobody is following the regulations and nobody is enforcing them. I am also not a fan of more government intervention but some sort of standards enforcement might be helpful in this case.

Posted 12 Nov 2010 02:35 AM Reply  Report this message
WMC1
California, United States 		I also did some testing at one account with an additive called CGX-4. It won't let me post the URL here but you can just Google it. There were some definite measurable improvements with it. The problem was getting the end-user to pay for it and make sure it got added to either their bulk tank or the truck cylinders on a regular basis. In the end, it was just too difficult to pull off. People have a mind set of doing something a certain way for years and they don't always like anything changing that.

Modified 12 Nov 2010 02:45 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
steponmebbbboom
Ontario, Canada

 		Can someone tell me the proper procedure for draining a vaporizer because in my 13 years as a tech I have never once removed the drian plug or opened the draincock on one single vaporizer and had even a trace of anything come out of it.

Posted 15 Nov 2010 09:09 AM Reply  Report this message
daryl_j
manchester, United Kingdom

 		Hang on a minute guys how often are you servicing your vaporizers and regulators strictly speaking most manufactures recommend ever 1000 hrs or once a year if light duty so just about every six months per truck now after saying that if we service them correctly gas problems should not happen regardless of how good or bad the gas is.  Is`nt that why they have built in filters in the units?

Posted 4 Dec 2010 06:09 AM Reply  Report this message
BenH
California, United States 		I ask my customers what kind of L.P. they are buying and they have no idea. I even asked the guy filling the propane tanks what grade of L.P. he was filling and he had no idea. I know our CAT manuals call for HD5 but seems like no one knows what is actually going thru the forklift. No wonder I prefer to work on electrics.

Posted 25 Dec 2010 06:54 AM Reply  Report this message
chublil
California, United States

 		Steponmebboom, you drain it after the reg has come to operating temp. Start the truck let it idle for  about 10 minutes, shut it down and drain whats there. The sulfer additive must be hot to flow.

-------------------------
Fix it right!!!

Posted 13 Jan 2011 09:31 PM Reply  Report this message
fixitandy
Pennsylvania, United States

 		  A few years ago, when the Nissan K21/K25 FI engines were coming onto the market,(and suffering from a lot of fuel quality problems), I had lengthily conversation with a factory engineer, who claimed that the refineries were adding some of the sulfur based compounds that were no longer allowed in the new formulation Diesel fuels into the LP gas. Or more succinctly, the sludge that they were extracting from the Diesel was being dumped in the LPG.  I don't know if any of that was actually true, but knowing what I know about oil refining industry, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is.

  It also seems to me that in the past year or so there have been a lot fewer fuel system failures directly related to fuel quality problems in my region, so perhaps the LPG industry is working to solve the problem.

Posted 26 Jan 2011 01:47 PM Reply  Report this message
tjoldman
Ohio, United States

 		Newer electronic injection systems are much better in fuel management but, the temperature of the vaporizor regulator is still an extremely important factor when considering the gunk that clogs up systems. Vaporizor Regulators need to be between 160 to 170 degrees to operate properly and not further "crack down" liquified propane. If you run higher temperatures, most systems will require more maintenance in draining the gunk and more fuel system component rebuilds.
In the old days we use to install inline thermostats in the coolant lines going to the regulators. These thermostats were normally wide open. When the temperature increased above 170 degrees the thermostat shut down and the vaporizor regulator cooled. The normal impurities and by-products (DURING the expansion and temperature change in the vaporizor regulators) of the liquid fuel better stayed suspended in the vapor and was burned in combustion and not deposited in your fuel system. If your engine runs hotter or a customers application causes higher temperatures, you will get more gunk (drop out from further cracking down LP) in the fuel system. Bad LP can also contribute to the problem no doubt!        

Posted 28 Jan 2011 06:05 AM Reply  Report this message
edward_t
South Carolina, United States

 		tjoldman, says; "install inline thermostats in the coolant lines going to the regulators" but this is incorrect and a type of "shorthand" that causes confusion and problems, since it is far more correct to say "install inline thermostats in the coolant lines leaving the regulators and going back to the engine" if you install it before the regulator, it will not correctly read the water temp in the regulator.

-------------------------
webhome = http://forktechs.com
"it's not rocket surgery"

Posted 28 Jan 2011 09:31 PM Reply  Report this message
HuskerHound
Nebraska, United States 		We did some testing and tjoldman is correct to install the thermostat before the vaporizer. We dropped the temp of the vaporizer or regulator over 20 degrees by doing so. The lower we keep the temp the lower we keep the tar content.
If you are like us if you check the number of filters you sell you will find the tech's are not changing the fuel lock filter, cleaning the last chance screen or draining the vaporizer.
According to Hendrix,Allied and several other fuel companies we checked with, anything over 140 degrees has a tendency to break the fuel back down into a liquid form.
Good luck guys

Posted 29 Jan 2011 00:20 AM Reply  Report this message


Forkliftaction.com accepts no responsibility for forum content and requires forum participants to adhere to the rules. Click here for more information.
FORUM GLOSSARY
Click for description.

FORUM
DISCUSSION
MESSAGES
NICKNAME
SIGNATURE

FORUMS
Discuss: Industry News & Whispers

Discuss: Conferences, trade shows & other events

Discuss: Mechanical Troubleshooting

Discuss: Technical arena. Did you know? Who knows?

Discuss: Machines. Forklifts, stackers, telehandlers, container handlers and reach stackers

Discuss: Business issues

Discuss: Safety, training & legislation

Discuss: Fun at work
©Forkliftaction.com
Forkliftaction Media Pty Ltd
PO Box 1439
Milton QLD 4064
Australia