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DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Industry News & Whispers
Discussion:  Hoist wins over Doosan is it fair
Number of messages: 13
START MESSAGE:
Daveilift
west yorks, United Kingdom 		Congressional intervention helped Hoist win a contract over Doosan is this fair. Hoist say's it will help American jobs but surely Doosan has American employees. Doosan will pay taxes in US so why should congress intervene to help Hoist.The contract was four four 16,000kg truck what if Hyster of Yale had won the contract would the same intervention of come because these are American owned brands ,but the trucks are made in Holland. How far can this go will Americans only buy American products ,will Chinese only buy from there local companies and will Europe do the same, If this was to happen what type of mess would we end up with    

Posted 28 Oct 2011 03:34 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
danny_k
Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom 		I think good on them, if our shower of a *** governments had thought like this years ago we may have some manufacturing left in this country.  

Posted 28 Oct 2011 03:39 AM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		Davelift,
1. Yes, Doosan has US employees in the US & I am not 100% certain but I believe they are "distributors" of Korean made products.   The Japanese started building units in the US in the early 90's because of an anti dumping suit
2.  But a 16,000kg pneumatic is 100% built in Korea.  Hoist is built in the US.
3.  As stated in the article the buy American act  gives the US built units get extra discount points than off shore built units.  If the owner of Hoist was a female, native American they would get further discount points but the owner isn't .  The article further states that our "typical" lax government servants "turned the cheek" on the buy American policy.  Hoist got the right people involved & pushed the matter, made the feds work & won.  Bravo for them.

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"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 28 Oct 2011 06:16 AM Reply  Report this message
Daveilift
west yorks, United Kingdom 		Yes that's all fair if they can do that but what would have been the result if Hyster or Yale had won again these trucks are made in Holland and NACCO are a US company would congress have got involved to help Hoist. The other point is say that the Korean army wanted 10 16 ton trucks and hoist went in and won then Doosan complained and they got the deal i'm sure hoist would not be happy . What works in one market will work in a other and if every one did this then there would be no competition only high prices

Posted 29 Oct 2011 02:47 AM Reply  Report this message
danny_k
Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom 		You need to keep it in proportion, we are only taking about government owned machines and what would the proportion be of all the machines sold in a country? very low I would have thought. If the government cant show the lead to by from its own country who can??

Posted 29 Oct 2011 05:40 AM Reply  Report this message
daniel_g
Flevoland, Netherlands 		As danny k says it is only a small number of machines and should the government not support local business first...well they should but many don't.

In terms of fair you only need to look at many countries outside of Europe and NA to see that domination of a local market is by local companies.  Now this is partially a choice by the people to buy local, but there is a lot of government involvement, which may not be direct, but it is there nonetheless.  Just look at the duties and taxes on importing into some countries (especially in Asia) and you'd see that indirectly that is government support for local business....but worse it is not for for only a small percentage of machines (like this Hoist deal) but applies to all imported unit.

It is much more widespread everywhere else in the world, esepcially in countries where the state is directly involved in many businesses.  Closer to home for some of you look at Germany and the domination of that market by local brands, be them automotive or forklift, which is supported by the government in various ways.

Posted 30 Oct 2011 07:28 PM Reply  Report this message
Beno
United States 		To characterise this as a victory for Hoist is surely disingenuous - if the kit offered the best value, wouldn't it have won the tender in the first place?

This is more a victory for protectionism over free trade and the fact this law originates from the 1930s says a lot about how out of date it is in these multi-national, inter-connected times.

If local markets favour locally produced equipment, then fair enough, but regulation should make it a level playing field for everyone, and not prop up inefficient or out-moded production practices.

In any case, it only prompts tit-for-tat measures which do more harm than good. Hence, the collapsing US export market after 1930 helped to set off a decline in American industry.

If the contract really does help save jobs then great, but that might be stretching it a little - this award is said to “support almost 40 jobs” at Hoist.

Doosan directly employs 38,500 people in 33 countries. Some are direct US employees. Other are employed at US distributors.  

Are 40 of those jobs more important than the 40 at Hoist? Who can say? And isn’t that the point?
Posted 1 Nov 2011 01:10 AM Reply  Report this message
johnr_j
Georgia, United States 		Beno,
The level playing field you refer to is non-existent for the most  part, with notable exceptions U.K. & Australia - do a google search and check it out - the US Census publishes this data by country.  For decades the US imports more from other countries around the world than we export - through August of this year almost a 1/2 billion $ difference.  There are many reasons for this - currency exchange advantages, the mountains of documentation required to import into another country, certainly taxes, fees, etc. associated with importation of goods. etc.

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"Have An Exceptional Day!"

Posted 2 Nov 2011 03:23 AM Reply  Report this message
Daveilift
west yorks, United Kingdom 		i agree withn Beno i don't think he could of put it better

Posted 2 Nov 2011 04:06 AM Reply  Report this message
Beno
United States 		Maybe fork_off, maybe not - Bombardier is a Canadian company afterall.

Some other interesting stats from today's "Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?" article on the BBC website:

"The UK is the sixth largest manufacturer in the world by output and a leading exporter of high-tech goods.

And there are plenty of other statistics to blow away the rumours of the sector's demise - manufacturing is the third largest sector in the UK, after business services and wholesale/retail, and output reached an all-time high in 2007.

The UK is producing more with fewer people, and like most modern economies, the focus has turned to higher-value items such as aerospace and defence equipment."

Posted 8 Nov 2011 07:50 PM Reply  Report this message
tcmtom
Alberta, Canada 		Just a quick note on Hoist beating out Doosan lets face facts the Hoist is not in the same league as a Doosan We all know the Hoist line is a superior unit

Posted 5 Feb 2012 01:33 PM Reply  Report this message
RayTech
Ontario, Canada 		it really hurts to lose manufacturing jobs. we have lost many to the US and continue with the loss of CAT in Ontario to the US. Cat demanded a 50 percent wage cut from Canadian workers. They are taking  the work state side. Worse, they are taking 80 years of technology as this London Ontario Locomotive factory was a world leader in trains. CAT made 50 million dollars last year...but still axed over 400 jobs here . They will take our technology, our jobs and all the customers we had, to Indiana ( a state that controls unions) When Cat purchased this plant 18 months ago, Our gov subsidized this place as Cat promised to stay. Cat made all their money from the Canadian  tarsands and Noranda. They can take, but not give.  I hope the Canadian government stops these rotten crooks from taking our technology and running! I used to have respect for CAT...now I see what they are really made of!

Modified 9 Feb 2012 11:06 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
bbforks
Pennsylvania, United States 		I wonder how congress got the information needed to get involved? Unfortuenately it's not a question of fair but who has deeper pockets or influence- just a thought.....

-------------------------
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!

Posted 9 Mar 2012 01:42 AM Reply  Report this message


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