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Who has the best 4 wheel sitdown C-B electrics

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

in another thread there is a request for opinions about 3 wheel sitdown electrics, so I figure to ask about 4 wheel sitdowns too..

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Posted 5 May 2006 4:07 AM

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will_d
Ontario, Canada

If money is no object, the Still R60 series ends this discussion

Posted 11 May 2006 11:53 PM

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ant_g
Tennessee, United States

If your talking in the United States. No question it will be Toyota. Haven't heard of a Still and don't know who it is made by. There are none of them in the Southeast portion of the U. S. Most forklift mfgs. are following Toyota with the A/C system now. Toyota has proven they are the leader in all lift trucks world wide.

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Posted 12 May 2006 1:07 AM

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will_d
Ontario, Canada

Hey Ant, excellent observation on the new Toyota 80 volt truck. Just think if it had regen braking In creasing sigle shift battery life by 20% coupled with wear free oil encapsulated brake system to eliminate brake repairs (which accounts for 30% of all maint costs on electric forklifts). If you had this, you would have a 1993 Still R60. It took Toyota almost 10 years to copy it, they came close it's a real nice truck much less money than a Still but.......

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Posted 12 May 2006 2:55 AM

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andrew
Ontario, Canada

Still do make an excellent truck perhaps even as good as the Linde E series (perhaps). When it comes to efficiency, ergonomics, cost of operation and reliability these cousins are in a class of their own. The initial purchase price depending on current exchange rates has sometimes been a stumbling block for those that cannot see the big picture and sometimes parts may be expensive but not if you don't need parts as often.

Andrew Wharton
Wharton Industrial Training

Posted 16 May 2006 12:29 AM

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will_d
Ontario, Canada

Yep Andrew nailed it, they are sister companies under the Linde Group. The E25 and the R60-25 performance wise are identical, Still seems to be the Mazda to Linde's Ford. The new Still R50 is quite a truck, if you are into three wheel electrics

Posted 17 May 2006 2:51 AM

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CD_AL
Alabama, United States

I think all of you have missed the boat. The Yale ERc-GH series has proven to be the most reliable and dependable electric sit-down truck on the market. Transistorized hydraulics make this a complete AC powered truck, eliminating brushes completely. Take a look.

Posted 17 May 2006 2:00 PM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

I have long considered the Mitsu-Cat-Raymond 4 wheel to be the best bang for the buck in the past. All GE drive control (in the past either SX or EV100 was used, both in their time) and motors, the same basic parts as on a same size IC truck meant a better chance of parts availibility, and service techs that could and did quickly figure out what was broken, and not just techs that lock you into theiir own brand.
I figure if it was a good enough sit down for Raymond to sell as their own it must be a pretty good truck overall
(and really, can you name 5 companies world wide with as many, as experianced, electric vehicle engineers as Raymond had 10 years ago?)

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Posted 17 May 2006 11:37 PM

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nick_u
Illinois, United States

I guess its all what you are use to but the Crown FC is my vote. Its built like a tank, has EV100, the best tech support of just about any forklift, the best parts and service manuals period. On top of all that, I challenge anyone to find a manufacturer with a better parts availability.

Posted 18 May 2006 7:00 AM

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JML2005
Virginia, United States

Parts support as an argument for the customer to buy a truck? What about uptime, less wearable parts, wear free brakes, sealed (IP54), maintenance free motors, longer runtime due to ac technology AND a first class parts support sustem on top?

Linde is the mother for companies like Still, Wagner, Lansing/Baker, Fiat OmPimespo and is a big European players with little (Linde) and no (STILL) presence in the US market. Linde Material Handling is about to be sold off to an investors group and I guess this will not have a positive effect on their dealer network/support to dealers.

Jungheinrich AG /Jungheinrich Lift Truck Corp (Richmond, VA), number 3 in the world has sold over 100,000 AC powered trucks worldwide (as per July 2005). Jungheinrich brought all ac powered units to the market in 1996 and has ac powered stacker, walk behind, orderpicker, walkie rider, reach trucks and very narrow ailse equipment available.

May be the name is not easy to pronounce, but if you talk about sealed/enclosed motors and controllers for usage outside of your building, pushing pallets without over heating the motor, wear free brakes, regnerative braking and energy reclamation whilst lowering and the lowest cost of ownership (no brushes, no contactors, no fans in some models) you have to take a look at those puppies.

Take care. JML

Posted 19 May 2006 9:07 AM

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ant_g
Tennessee, United States

Everyone knows that Yale took all of the knowledge from Hyster to develop their truck. It is not the best electric around with the problems they face trying to push the AC unit quickly on the market. This was to compete with the leader on electrics and IC trucks US and worldwide..... TOYOTA. As for Jungheinrich with 100,000 units worldwide. How many are in the US and where is the dealer support to back it up?

Posted 20 May 2006 12:39 AM

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trainer
Indiana, United States

Have you seen a new Clark TMX20 yet???

Zapi controls just like Hy-ale

still ugly and green and all AC

Posted 20 May 2006 4:01 AM

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scissorshand
Selangor, Malaysia

The last time i came across a Yale/Hyster reachtruck with ZAPI, it is very troublesome units. Each modules fitted on new truck that comes out from Italy has a different version of software and settings which in turn gives the tech huge challenge when attending to problem.

I would keep a distance on those trucks with ZAPI's!

Posted 12 Jun 2006 3:26 PM

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scissorshand
Selangor, Malaysia

ant_g,

BTW, those BE truck from Jpn, they're SHINKO based machines and if you refering which i hope you're not, HYSTER/YALE gets their technology from SHINKO.

Cheers!

Posted 12 Jun 2006 3:28 PM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

I have only looked at electric forklifts for a little while (since they were carbon pile units) and I consider the ZAPI software diagnostics system better than average, or most of the compititions. I like the idea that you have one handset or laptop program that works in damn near every controller, and only one cable set to purchase.
I do recognize that some US based forklift manufacturers (no names, but the intials start with an N and end in an O) have "basterized" the controllers after ZAPI sold them, to only work under certain (possibly undocumented) circumstances, as a method to protect their sales from being maintained by anyone else.
I think we all are likely to wish to protect and promote that which we are familiar with. but in this industry, to be 'afraid of change' is 'death on the vine'...

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Posted 19 Jul 2006 6:17 AM

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mike_n
Alberta, Canada

Raymond, CAT and Crown?!?!?!
They don't even make the damn things...
Just some generic assembly line with custom paint and decals at the far end (yes I know, some custom electronics in the cat)
When was the last time you met a Raymond tech who could fix an EV100? I'm still waiting.
(Besides, ev100's are so 80's :-) )

Zapi's don't come in the 4 wheel cb trucks, only the 3-wheels and the walky jacks. But yes, they scare me to... but there is only 1 cable and 1 program to service the entire ac line from n___o

I've never seen a good linde electric, and I was a linde tech for 6 years.

The flip side is, I've never seen a bad toyota cb truck.

I've seen plenty of clark pos's though... ever sice they filed for bankruptcy the first time...

I hope that didn't come out too bitchy. (bitchily ?)

It's just that these flame wars seem to be primarily based on where the commentor works, rather than what is actually good out there.

How about some honest comments;
I've always loved the toyota 2fbca's and the old clark ec500's... talk about tanks!
I've also always loved the shyster's (yales post merge).

With the exception of the raymond model 20 and 31's, how many 20+ year old raymonds do you expect to see running around in the future? Why so few?
How many linde e15-20's are still running around 15 years later. hmmm, why so few?
How many 20+ year old shysters are still running around? Really, that many? Why?

Why does GM still run 30+ year old Clark ec500's? That reliable, eh?

Why do companies keep running ancient fleets of crown reaches?

I'm going to bed...

Posted 19 Jul 2006 6:15 PM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

I guess one of the points we _ought_ to try and decide (maybe a new thread?) is what makes a forklift "good" or "bad". is good "cheap to keep" in years 5 to 9, or is it easy service for years 1 to 3?
when you say "they don't make the damn things" I don't really know what you mean, but I can be sure the Houston Factory of MCFA does put the whole truck together true they buy motors and controllers from a vendor, but Toyota automotive does not manufacture their own automotive seat covers or seatbelts or airbags either, they get it from a vendor, that's the way manufacturing is done these days...
maybe they keep the Ancient fleets because that is what they know, and they fear the unknown?

Posted 19 Jul 2006 10:40 PM

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gary_d
scotland, United Kingdom

as a still dealer id say still obviosly jst look at our concept truck to the left now thats forward thinking linde is equal in quality its the germans they are better jst look at there cars if you are talking about hysters and yales you havent got a clue the r60 and now the rx60 ends this disscusion

Posted 27 Sep 2007 7:00 AM

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lcoo123
Texas, United States

First off, to the poster that said Crown doesn't make their own product....have you not had "vertical integration" beat into you head by now. Crown makes and designs everything that goes into all of their equipment. As far as I know, they are the ONLY company that sells trucks in the US that still does that. Secondly, as far as the "best" 4-wheeler goes, I'd stick to either Toyota or Crown. Yale/Hyster has a decent truck, you could do better but you could do worse. I must say that I am a bit biased b/c I am framiliar with the Crown FC. As a matter of fact they just recently came out with a revision to that model and it now has AC drive and lift (Crown Built). Toyota has historically been the standard for this class. Other than that, if you are a US buyer, stay away from anything that you have never heard of or can't pronounce. The dealer parts & service support is not there for Linde/Jungein/Still/etc....

Posted 25 Oct 2007 12:48 AM

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tcmgirl
Pennsylvania, United States

Before you buy a forklift consider parts cost because no matter how "great" the forklift is, it is going to break and Toyota is known for extremely high parts prices. They do this because they give their forklifts away to national accounts so they can keep their units sold numbers up and remain #1.
So if you are an end user with less than 100 forklifts you'll pay an ungodly amount for parts so Toyota can recoup their losses on national account sales.
Why don't you look into TCM. They offer the same as Toyota, Clark, Hyster, etc. They have reasonable forklift costs and reasonable parts costs. TCM has been manufacturing forklifts since 1949.
As for AC power, Toyota along with most other forklift manufacturers have been copying European technology and will probably continue to do so. Toyota is good at advertising and that is about it.

Posted 25 Oct 2007 9:26 AM

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