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DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Industry News & Whispers
Discussion:  GPS units on service vehicles
Number of messages: 145
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batman
Pennsylvania, United States 		I am doing some research on the pro's and con's of implementing GPS "tracking" on service vehicles. I would like to hear from as many people as possible on your thoughts on this issue. Some questions that I have would be:

1. Would you feel like you are being watched?
2. What problems or issues would be solved by installing GPS on service vans?
3. Can anyone quantify in real numbers the savings by installing GPS on service vehicles?
4. How do they increase efficiency as claimed by many manufacturers?
5. Would you get your good techs mad by installing them?
6. If you have a good tech (takes care of themselves, covers their time) how can GPS possibly help?

I would especially like to hear from anyone who works for a company that is currently using GPS or has used them in the past and what your feelings are on using GPS. I will keep a close eye on this and try to come back with more questions or remarks whenever anyone posts. I'm not being arrogant, I just want to learn as much as possible about GPS and want to pick as many brains as possible.

Thanks in advance.

Posted 28 Mar 2008 12:54 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		We have gps.Its ok you dont realy see any savings if you have good techs.When Im on the road I cover my time.If im on a job and it isnt done at 12 I dont stop for lunch.I used to spend more time stoping in on customers in the area just as a checkup.Slow day on the way back stop in say hi is all doing well then move on with GPS I dont do that anymore.Lost sales over that.If your there and they think that a travel fee wont be charged they might say I got a oil leak, a miss ect.Also let them know you were on the job looking out for them not hanging around shooting the fat just a checkup.Also Gps in any form can be bypassed.Check the net truckers do it all the time.You will save some if you have techs that cut the clock,take longer on simple jobs spank service ect.Paperwork always tells on them.A service was just done now the carriage is falling out How do you miss that on a service?If your seeing that it needs to be took care of because it will also ruin a good tech if he sees everyone else is not doing crap and I have to go back and fix what they dont want to.You always burn the go to man out dont we?Go fix this go see why that.Then they get to a customer that they normaly dont do only to find a tech was there and serviced truck a week ago.Fan belts broke,Carrage bushings shot,No lube on kingpins.Gps wont fix that they just spend more time goofing off at customers location.Regular inspection of all service techs work and customer feed back is the only way to save money and fuel cost.If you do your homework it pays off.Will it piss a good tech off to have his work checked.I dont think so.I welcome new eyes on my trucks because im only a man.I miss stuff to.We can all learn, its just when you have people who are only ther for 8hrs then home you will find waste.Now that wont count on anyone here because you took the time to learn more off the clock didnt you?Soap box can now be taken I feel so much better.Wait I have to go to work today I feel worse

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"Work leads to profit, mere talk leads to poverty"

Modified 28 Mar 2008 09:39 PM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
rob1
North Carolina, United States 		GPS has saved us a ton $$$$$$.

1.  Fuel costs dropped 18% magically.  We made absolutely no change in policy etc. and yet when GPS went in, lower fuel cost...hmmmm.

2.  Insurance.  Premiums dropped 15% with proof of GPS installation.  You may as well go ahead with GPS on company vehicles, because eventally the insurance companies are going to require it for coverage,

3.  Dispatch Time.  Service Dept can instantly view all service vehicles and decide which unit is closer.  Time from breakdown call to arrival at customer location on average dropped by 1 hour.

4.  Billing Issues.  Ex.  Customers calls and says "you billed me for 3 hours but your tech was only here 1 hour"  now you can go back and proove by GPS printout how long your tech was there.

5.  Safety. Excessive  Speed email alerts can be set at whatever level you desire.  We direct these excessive speed alerts directly to the technicians not to the management.  This way they don't feel as though Big Brother is watching and they know that we really do care about their safety.

Overall, GPS has been very good for us.  If you have good employees, they could care less about GPS on their vehicles.  Don't use it as a tool to micro manage...a poor employee will manifest himself or herself in time anyway.



Posted 29 Mar 2008 00:12 AM Reply  Report this message
EasyM
South Carolina, United States

 		The only technicians that I know that have a problem with GPS units are the one's that aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Posted 29 Mar 2008 00:41 AM Reply  Report this message
kevin_k
dumfriesshire, United Kingdom

 		you are so right easym . gps benefit to us was shown when 1 guy had his van stolen . police recovered within a hour or so ,but no tools inside . so they just retraced all the stop off points with the tracker . then went round to the thief,s  friends house and got the lot back . a bit of reassurance . if your honest about your days work you have nothing to hide

Posted 29 Mar 2008 06:28 AM Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		Fuel cost down 18%?What went on there.Like I said check your paperwork.The point of customer billing I overlooked.
We have points of service so you should be in you area, close to customer.Insurance I dont have knoledge of but I can see cost reduction in that.I Think I used this post for a vent for diffrent issues than GPS.But like I said it can be bypassed so how do you know tech was there or here.If they are smart enough to be a tech they are smart enough to bypass a system as simple as gps.This to will show in time.Id kind of like to know service tech or service lead/supervisior who make the post.Im a road tech.And like I said before my company wont hold you to the wall for 75 in a 70 or a long lunch ect.GPS never has botherd me I did change what I do in a day when it was installed,Checking on customers not as often.I just think there must be a better way to weed out or keep honest the people who work at a given job.

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"Work leads to profit, mere talk leads to poverty"

Posted 29 Mar 2008 10:53 AM Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States
The real issue is ITEGRITY, something that has become a lost art with people these days---Be where you are suppose to be ---Do what you say you are going do---Do the job RIGHT the first time , If you have to be "Watched" by your employer to make sure that you are doing it right, then you need to move on and let someone who will have your Van----

Would I have a problem with GPS?--Not a bit--Have no problem with it. I would not do anything any different than I do now, The only problem I see that there would be is the person doing the monitoring.





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"ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?"

Modified 19 Jul 2008 07:48 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
batman
Pennsylvania, United States 		Proshadetree, roadrat: Both you guys are road techs. I know that some days you just don't feel like working, especially Friday's during great weather and you schedule your day light, like go to one customer and do about 5 PM's to get your day in. You work maybe 5 or 6 hours, bill 8 and are home early beating Friday traffic. Should this be tolerated? Should it be tolerated just for "good" techs? Should GPS be installed to stop this 1 or 2 hour "stealing" from the company? Does GPS bring good techs down to slacker tech level or bring everyone to the same playing field? Thanks so far for the input.

Posted 29 Mar 2008 01:30 PM Reply  Report this message
batman
Pennsylvania, United States 		rob1, I expect that you are possibly in management in one form or another. Here's my question regardless of what position you have. Proshadetree stated that he no longer "courtesy" calls on customers on slow days, possibly out of contempt for the installing of a GPS on his van to monitor him or possibly for other reasons. However, how can you put into numbers good techs courtesy calling on customers? Does the savings offset the employee moral going way down with installing GPS? What if you have a real idiot service manager who badgers the good techs about every hour they bill the company that they don't actually work without taking into consideration all the extra's a good tech brings to the company? Do the savings really equal what you are giving up with customer loyalty and possibly employee loyalty? I know every company will always have slacker techs but there must be other ways to deal with the slackers other than installing GPS?

Posted 29 Mar 2008 01:37 PM Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States
Our Company takes good care of us, so in return I take care of them.

Modified 19 Jul 2008 07:46 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States


  
Modified 12 Jul 2008 09:57 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		Where in you hear a service tech complaining do you see a clock cutter.You did it so everyone must?I have to look at myself when I shave in the morning and stealing and cheating my customers is not something I can deal with.Like I said I work for a good company we do have GPS never had a word said to me over stoping by the parts store on way home or the home depot to pick something up.Not driving 10 miles to just if its on the way.Also have took 1 hr lunch look at my clock card its there.I have also worked 12 hrs and put on a lunch when my tale was under a lift all day.Most days I dont take lunch but have to clock it.I dont leave early because I dont want my boss getting heat over a van going home early.They never said your tech didnt take lunch because his van hasnt moved in 12 hrs Yes they have fired techs that were at home when they were clocked at a job.I like what I do, if I worked for a crapy place Id move on.Pride in your work is what puts you over the top if you or a 40 hr a week guy and get home.Look at your work compared to a person who has made this his trade.Im a service tech,for my company or somewhere else.My boss knows that, yes we have less than perfect techs I pitch a fit over because I have to go behind them to fix their nasty crap.Ive said before boss should go look at service done your work shows in what you leave behind.I welcome fresh looks at my service maybe Im overlooking something.I never lost a spindel to lack of lube or a carriage to not having hooks adjusted.I understand some customer dont want things done but you can do a lot on a pm.Spark plugs then wires then cap and rotor.Ive took a beating over that but not form a customer service labor cost less than regular work at our shop.Yes i want my company making money but I also want a customer that wont even look your way when you come in offering cheaper rates.Look at your paper work check your parts per van you will find your slackers every time unless your out golfing on the clock and dont have time.I dont call on customers anymore because I dont need the heat of why were you at this man for 30 min and dont have a bill for them why do you have a bill when I dont have a call.Customers still call me on my phone not company phone because they dont want to talk to the answering service they want a human then I have to call in a service call.Yes crap is spred over that near as I can figure they need the manpower to watch GPS so we need a robot for the phone Im r2d2 leave a message at the beep press 3 for english press 9 for spanish.Management take notice your tech represents you if you have crap in your crew you are crap.If you have good techs your good.Get off your butts and check on them the old fashion way,not with a babby sitter.Now to realy get home are you at the office posting this or at home?Waste is waste get off the computer and do you job.If your at home you now are the tradesman who wants the best for himself which leads to the best for his employer

Modified 30 Mar 2008 03:58 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States

 		I totally agree Mike,  

Modified 12 Jul 2008 08:06 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		I goy ticked because A person who dont even know me wants to say every service man cuts the clock.Like I said we do have GPS it still didnt stop slopy work. Want to save money,cut fuel costs,be a hero to your customers?Dump the slackers,Even some jiffy lube guys can do more.
It will make you more money.As far as questions on bills.I just called the service manager in 15 years I never got a call about to much time on a bill.Why?Customers trust me.Has it took me way to long to fix a truck?Yes I worked on a stopped up muffler for 3 days on and off.I can personaly say that wont kick my tale next time.I can name a hundred things that have done the same.Im not a forklift god,only a man who cares about what he did in a day.I dont care who is looking over my back.GPS is not a cure all.I welcomed it at first I thought well now these men will have to do their job.Ask me how I know GPS can be bypassed.I have talked to other techs till im going to puke.I dont write the check so I dont matter.I was in management before this I would never go back.You cant be a buddy and then crawl down a mans back.Why dont you pay the service tech who stands out what that stupid box cost?I do like the fact if my van is stolen and they dont see the GPS I might get some of my stuff back.It also would good to use if you get a ticket and know you wasnt speeding.Maybe when you cant find a customer so you put it in and then are told where to go,only ours will take you 100 miles out of your way to do it.The thing Im saying is dont think GPS will keep your people in line.A theif will come up with a way to bypass it.Ask anyone who has had a car with VATS stolen.If and operator can bypass a seat switch or a height switch a service man can bypass GPS.

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"Work leads to profit, mere talk leads to poverty"

Modified 30 Mar 2008 04:46 AM
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batman
Pennsylvania, United States 		Sorry about sounding like I was saying you cut hours. I was just trying to get some feedback, it wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth and just so we can get one thing straight, I am a road tech, not management. My company is going to GPS on road vans to improve efficiency. My opinion on the whole GPS deal is this: Micro management will succeed to bring the great/good tech down to slacker level. Not quality of work but in other ways like no more courtesy calls. I think there are other ways to weed out poor techs and to take care of the good techs. I am right with both of you guys (proshadetree, roadrat), I am happy if I can cover most of my travel in a day, I don't need to only work five hours and bill eight. When I do rental PM's (customer never gets bill) I don't even charge out the full time allotted me by my company because I feel like if I get done quicker and only bill what it takes me the company makes more money and my job is more secure. However, there are guys who won't even PM a rental and charge for it anyway. I am a road tech because I like the fact that I can schedule my own work, take care of my customers my way and be sort of like my own boss. With GPS I might as well be in the shop! Final opinion: When you need GPS for disciplinary reasons the problems run deeper than what GPS can fix. I always do a good job and give an honest days work so GPS will not change anything that I do. The slackers will still be slackers but will come up with more creative ways to be slackers.

And one more thing: Why is GPS never installed on sales peoples vehicles? What? As long as they are selling they are doing their job. How about as long as my customers are happy I am doing my job, no need to micromanage?

Posted 30 Mar 2008 09:50 AM Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States

 		I appreciate you last post  batman, I believe that we are all on the "same page" with this issue. If everyone did the right thing then companies would not have to resort to these measures.

I totally agree, If the customers are happy and productivity is high as well as profits, Then we can leave things alone.

We live in a time where the cost of doing business is high because of taxes--insurance--fuel prices--sevice fleet vehicles and so on.

Businesses are having to implement every cost cutting measure that is available to keep the doors open and keep profitable to stay in business and provide jobs as well as maintain their position in the marketplace.  The "intellegent" business owner with common sense will explore "all" aspects of their business to "TRIM FAT"
and implement cost saving measures throughout the whole company, not just one area.

It is hard to "police" the actions of employees so they do the right thing, in the old days you could trust folks. I can't blame companies for having to do what they have to keep a float. Modern technology has made a way to make that happen.

After the bad apples are weeded out, we will see a difference in the Industry.

It is a touchy subject and it is easy to get ruffled.

Modified 1 Apr 2008 08:21 AM
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JonG
United States 		I've been and am on both sides of the GPS is good/micromanagement discussion. The GPS companies do a great job touting their product, and GPS is a great tool if you suspect that someone is cheating. We've all seen techs that cheat companies, and most of them get caught, on the same hand companies have cheated us, and they eventually loose their techs and then their customers.

Crown in Atlanta had GPS years ago. Their techs left in droves and the ones left learned quickly how to disable the system. It may have saved the company a few bucks in the short term in hours and fuel, but the long-term cost was prohibitive in lost customers (they could not get their equipment fixed) and increased hiring and training costs.

The real problems facing any company today are scary. Company vehicles are becoming targets for people on the road who want a free insurance ride, techs are 'encouraged' to get to the customers more quickly, skip that lunch break and eat and drive etc. These types of things have driven the cost of insurance through the roof. Couple in the tripled price of gas, and any one offering to save you money on vehicle expenses is listened to. I've tested GPS on vehicles, in both cellular and satellite forms. It's amazing that the drivers know we are testing it on their vehicles and the gas usage goes down, and we get less calls complaining about 'that crazy driver'; the downside is big brother is watching. We tested on volunteer’s vehicles, and that was still a comment.

I suspect that we will keep looking at GPS or something like it. When it’s offered by the vehicle manufacturers as an option we will get it.  The gas savings are too real; the insurance breaks are real, as are the OBDII fault codes coming into our fleet manager (from the GPS system via e-mail). These have saved us significant down time and vehicle expenses. How the GPS info on route and driver speed is used will be open for discussion. Excess speed is a valid safety issue, as is what happens to vehicles after hours. With the service vehicles we use we have ignored where they are between 5AM and 6PM, too many stops, and to be honest too time consuming to work out, before and after is a lot more interesting. Speeding is tougher to work out, though >75 mph is emailed to the manager and the tech. The downside of GPS in the cost of the unit; its install costs and on going monthly service fees.
.
We are also in the process of having our vehicles speed controlled to 70 MPH by the manufacturer. Not as easy to defeat, only a one time cost, and this also gives us an insurance saving.

This really boils down to companies being abused by techs, and techs not trusting their management to fairly use a tool. If you're a good tech you'll leave (I've done it and seen it), a 8-5 mediocre tech will stay, and eventually the company itself will be mediocre..
We've noticed that by slowing the vehicles down we've achieved a lot of the same savings I fuel and insurance..  

My apologies if I rambled..
Posted 30 Mar 2008 10:58 PM Reply  Report this message
edward_t
North Carolina, United States

 		consider Elliott Spitzer;
another consideration for management;
People generally accuse others of the wrong doing they are considering.
An honest person gets taken by a crook because they expect the crook to be as honest as they are.
The crook expects everyone else to be the same kind of crook they are.
A person (Elliott Spitzer, former NY state Gov. but I could name a dozen others) going to hookers thinks everyone else goes to hookers.
Managers screwing off expect everyone else to be screwing off. The managers that think that a visit to a customer that has not called in a service call might be stealing from possible company business, must have at least considered doing the same bit of "'piracy".

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webhome = forktechs.com/mailman/listinfo/techs_word

Modified 30 Mar 2008 11:03 PM
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proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		Griping is not so much at branch level its from main office. Service supervisior takes care of me so I want to take care of him.He makes any mistkakes I make right with customer, I make sure this is keep to a minamum.We do have a logistics person who runs off the reports and crys what about this or this or this.He just tosses it out unless it comes from higher ups.I dont mind the big brother watching.And once more Im sorry for highjacking this post to cry over poor sevrice techs.People who dont pull their weight tick me off Im a big boy and got enough to pull without extra. ED I hope all is well with you

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"Work leads to profit, mere talk leads to poverty"

Modified 31 Mar 2008 02:56 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States

 		RESPONSE TO:  edward T----"AMEN BRUTHA!"----

"YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD"

PS: Good to see you back ED!

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"ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?"

Modified 31 Mar 2008 12:02 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
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