Email
Password   Forgotten?
Remember me
Marketplace
Business Directory
Discussion Forums
Home
My profile
Search
Spec-Checker
Industry News
Events Calendar
Jobs & Resumes
Photo Galleries
Home | About us | Advertise with us | Tell an associate | Contact us | Site map | Help 
Search  
DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Technical arena
Discussion:  How to Idiot-Proof a forklift?
Number of messages: 26
Page: [1] 2
START MESSAGE:
roadrat
North Carolina, United States

 		I  would like feedback from the Forklift Techs from other states and countries concerning seat belt ignition lockouts and seat switches wired "in series" so the truck will not start unless belt is latched and if they lean over to far the seat switch will kill the engine. I have a customer who asked me if they were the only company who requires this set up and I had to tell Him most places have a seatbelt use rule but not a setup to stop the truck. DO any of you fellows out the run into these issues?

-------------------------
"ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?"

Posted 6 Feb 2008 01:21 PM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
carl_v
Pennsylvania, United States 		All 2006 and new have operator presence detection to disengage transmission. Kind-of-like SRO on electric trucks.
If they or you are hooking up circuits for ignition, etc. You better get permission in writing from the manufacturer because it a modification to the truck. The employer should be enforcing the use of seat belts, if something happens, they will be liable. The employer has to provide a safe work enviroment. The operators manual for the truck will have a procedure on how to use the seat belt. That is all OSHA needs to cite the employer for non seat usage!

Posted 7 Feb 2008 07:51 AM Reply  Report this message
william_r
California, United States

 		I use electric seat belts for all my customers. I wire up in many fashions just depends on the lift and or other options using. For example I also sell Keytrollers and use them at almost all my customers, some seat belts are wired as such that the keytroller receives no power unless the seat belt is latched. This can be used with shockwatch product as well.
Some lifts are wired (like GC70K cats), so that the engine can start but transmission wont engauge without seat belt on, some applications the coil receives no power unless seatbelt is hooked up.
Some fortis truck, a software is required to except the seat belt install, or if you know where the one and only power source on a fortis truck that doesnt require programming is located you can use that.  Hint near battery

Posted 7 Feb 2008 01:36 PM Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		Thats when the idiots that drive them get out paper clips and by-pass all you have worked to put on and the customer screams that its a fault product.The you get to explain I didnt design it just installed it.You just cant stop an IDIOT.And they breed like roaches when one stupid person sees an idiot he warps to idiotspeed in a flash next thing you know the place is full of them.Whoops did I say that out loud ,my bad

-------------------------
"Work leads to profit, mere talk leads to poverty"

Modified 7 Feb 2008 08:08 PM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
John_Lambert
Victoria, Australia 		Hi all

You should also aim to include in your system devices that make sure the parking brake is applied before the driver dismounts. There are too many cases of serious injury and death that result from the forklift rolling away – in one I investigated where there was security video the forklift did not start to roll for around 28 seconds after the operator left it.

I as part of an A$330,000 project funded by Worksafe Victoria and managed by Monash University Accident Research centre. Part of that project involved trying to develop an intelligent seatbelt and parking brake safety system.

The system ended up with two driver sensors in the seat cushion (when a driver rotates their torso to look to the rear, seat cushion pressure may be transferred towards the edge of the cushion), a sensor determining when the seat belt was attached, a sensor determining whether the parking brake was applied or not, and interlock to disable the IC engine, and a small programmable chip. The chip monitored that the sensors reflected safe forklift operation - at start up driver to get onto seat, then attach seatbelt, then release the parking brake, and then start the engine, and the reverse when parking the forklift. It also allowed the driver to get off the forklift with the engine still running provided the parking brake was engaged and the right sequence of actions taken, though it switched the engine off after a predetermined time (5 minutes) if the driver did not remount (this was to limit emission production and the risk of emission build up in an area that might not be well ventilated, as well as to conserve fuel). All (Three) 7 series Toyota forklifts were fitted with the system in an area operated on three shifts 5 days per week plus two shifts on Saturday.

The operators worked out how to fail the system within 8 days and it was removed from all machines at the insistence of the plant managers?

How did they fail the system? They fed the seatbelt under the seat and back up to the seatbelt latch and sat the tongue of the seat belt latch in place (belt tension pulling down kept it there). The operators then clicked the buckle down or un-clicked the buckle at the appropriate time and so could proceed to drive the forklifts without a seat belt (they did not bypass the parking brake system).

What drove the operators to fail the system? Basically two things. There were two obese operators whose butt extended over the top of the seat belt latch male unit which made it extremely difficult for them to attach the seatbelt. And there were these tow operators and another large operator who found that when they went to roll their hips to enable them to look to the rear the seatbelt would lock as they started to roll their hips. hence they had to pull out the seatbelt to loosen it then roll their body to look to the rear - a nuisance and a waste of time.

Lesson: There is a need to develop foklift seats and seat belts what suit obese drivers, and the seatbelts need to be of the style used in heavy truck seats - these have a higher tolerance on movement of the seatbelt before locking.


-------------------------
Better to strive and experience all life’s colours from pain to ecstasy than to exist in a grey life

Posted 7 Feb 2008 09:08 PM Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		My company also wont let us use use aftermarket seats due to sevral law suiets.Aftermarket seats supplier claims they never made a statement that it would fit said lift so now we are on hook for installing wrong seat.Use OEM and no way that will happen.We do sell customer seats that they can put on.Confused yet?I am.

Posted 7 Feb 2008 11:22 PM Reply  Report this message
t_troutman
Illinois, United States

 		SpeedShield seatbelt and seat interlocks can require the operator first sits in the seat, then fastens seatbelt.  If not in that order, the truck will not start.  In addition it can shut down the engine if the operator does not engage the parking brake before leaving the forklift.  In addition will shut down if forklift is left running for more than 45 seconds with parking brake set and seatbelt unlatched.  Saves fuel and reduces emissions.  Much more in an easy to install and resonably priced system.  Fits most forklifts for an easy installation.

-------------------------
Terry Troutman +1-630-590-3984 terry.troutman@speedshield-usa.com www.speedshield-usa.com

Posted 8 Feb 2008 01:42 AM Reply  Report this message
Drlifttruck


It is imposible to engineer to against stupid!

Proper operator training, enforcement of safe use practices and enough time allowed to perform the task safely.

One can not anticipate all of the stupid things operators may or may not do.

Education and enforcement should suffice!

My thoughts!

-------------------------
Lift Trucks all the same, just painted different colors Regards, Doc My Email is: Ulsh1@aol.com

Posted 11 Feb 2008 11:22 AM Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States

 		  I am greatfull for the feedback from you guy's . It is hard to explain to management that you can't just "wire" in all these extra switches on these newer trucks with CANBUS electronics like their older Clarks and Toyota's were .The manufacturer can only go so far with saftey items without driving cost up out of sight. You can't legislate or mandate GOOD OLE COMMON SENSE it is almost a lost art. People need to follow the saftey rules or hit the road. Their idea to "failsafe"the forklift so an innocent person is not hurt or killed by an "IDIOT" is good but they are living in a fantasy world, untill they make auto parkbrakes  and self latching seatbelts, very harsh consequences for violators is the only answer.
'

Modified 15 Feb 2008 02:19 PM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		If the Idiot can figure out how to start it now we have the problem the Idiot can then move it.I know I have been in factorys where you see Driver A on a lift you head for high ground.Sad but true.We as techs can only alert customer of a problem, but not enforce a cure

Posted 15 Feb 2008 11:45 PM Reply  Report this message
roadrat
North Carolina, United States

 		THANKS  william R, you are on the same page as I am about the trucks I am dealing with.

Modified 5 Mar 2008 12:45 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
SAWB
Indiana, United States 		If an aftermarket device is wired to a lift and interferes with ignition/truck movement this could be a problem if a pedestrian were trapped by the lift. During the panic to rescue the trapped person the operator/emergency response people may not know the sequence of events that is required to operate the unit. It would seem the safest to leave the OEM safety equipment in place and require its use. The root cause of the problem is lack of enforcement of current safety proceedures. I have very few customers that are willing to take action against an employee that does not follow the proceedures we are discussing  much less terminate them. How many of you have installed these devices only to have them disabled by the operators before you made it to your next job? How many of the operators that disable them continue to drive the lift today? Does it make sense to open yourself and your employer to a lawsuit because the customer will not enforce rules they currently have?

Posted 17 Feb 2008 01:14 AM Reply  Report this message
John_Lambert
Victoria, Australia 		Good point though I find it hard to think of a situation where the aftermarket devices would create a problem - if the driver is on the forklift when the pedestrain is hit then he has control and can operate it as required. And a forklift with interlocks and sensors that minimise the chance of a parking brake not being applied or not being applied properly then the redestrian being hit by a runaway forklit problem should largely dissappear.

Enforcement of seatbelt wearing is a big problem - I only know of two sites where there is a 100% wearing rate. But we are dealing with an issue where even in Australia where seatbelt wearing is compulsory. and failure to wear one had been a primary offence since the early 70's, there is an exception for drivers required to get in and out of the cabin all the time while travelling slow - garbage collectors. What we need to design/ have designed is a device operated one hand that is like the safety bar on a bobcat. You pull it down and against your waist to activate the forklift controls, and once the forklift is mobile it cannot be retracted until you stop the forklift to get off - and raising the bar automatically applies the parking brake.

Over to all the inventors - I've got university students here that I've challenged. (and of course a great design might then also be adapted and applied to garbage trucks and similar!)

-------------------------
Better to strive and experience all life’s colours from pain to ecstasy than to exist in a grey life

Posted 17 Feb 2008 01:32 AM Reply  Report this message
John_Lambert
Victoria, Australia 		Hi etharp

Vehicles are different but problem is the same - getting operators to put a restraint on (normally a seat belt). Bobcat safety bar was developed because people were getting into the bobcat from the front (as is required with most) with the Bobcat running and accidently putting their hands on controls with injury and deaths from impact or crushing. The bar has to be in the raised position - bobcat disabled position - to get in or out and it can be raised or lowered with one hand.

-------------------------
Better to strive and experience all life’s colours from pain to ecstasy than to exist in a grey life

Posted 17 Feb 2008 03:33 AM Reply  Report this message
t_troutman
Illinois, United States

 		Because operators do not want to wear seat belts, they try to find ways around the rules.  I am glad the new trucks have "Operator presence" to keep it out of gear.  SpeedShield Interlock System can work with most forklifts and can require that the operator first sits in the seat, then fastens seat belt or the starter will not engage.  It can also sound an alarm or shut then truck down if he gets off the truck without engaging the parking brake and leaves it running.  This is for safety as well as fuel economy.  These are just a couple of the features designed to Idiot-proof a forklift.  SpeedShield-USA!

-------------------------
Terry Troutman +1-630-590-3984 terry.troutman@speedshield-usa.com www.speedshield-usa.com

Posted 17 Feb 2008 07:26 AM Reply  Report this message
SAWB
Indiana, United States 		Could a device such as a double shoulder belt that attached to a safety bar that would pull down over the operators head work in conjuction with a presence switch in the seat? Similiar to a roller coaster restraint. This would allow some movement of the operator to turn in the seat without the option of not wearing the belt. This could also provide side restraints without the need to climb over them to enter the seat.

Posted 17 Feb 2008 08:02 AM Reply  Report this message
whoknows
Ohio, United States 		to quote ron white " you cant fix stupid"

Posted 17 Feb 2008 01:57 PM Reply  Report this message
John_Lambert
Victoria, Australia 		Come on guys - as I say in presentations I give on forklift safety, in 1965 Ralph Nader published his book "Unsafe at Any Speed" which arguably head the change from relying on humans to protect themsleves in vehicles, to the manufacturers producing cars which are much safer for the occupants - "if someone makes a mistake they shouldn't have to die as a result!".
Forklift design is about 30 years behind cars - it's only been since the mid 90's that forklifts like Toyota's series 7 have been produced.

Let's learn from the auto industry, and work towards building in more safety into forklifts.

And a challenge - who's going to be the first of you to have a bar fitted on the RHS of the overhead guard in small forklifts - this is the side you're not supposed to mount or dismount from because if the engine is running you might accidently lean on a lever while getting on or off. The light bar at an appropriate height would prevent drivers trying to jump clear that side, and give the driver a hand hold to hold himself on the seat if the forjlift rolls in the other direction


-------------------------
Better to strive and experience all life’s colours from pain to ecstasy than to exist in a grey life

Posted 17 Feb 2008 11:37 PM Reply  Report this message
Page: [1] 2


Forkliftaction.com accepts no responsibility for forum content and requires forum participants to adhere to the rules. Click here for more information.
FORUM GLOSSARY
Click for description.

FORUM
DISCUSSION
MESSAGES
NICKNAME
SIGNATURE

FORUMS
Discuss: Industry News & Whispers

Discuss: Conferences, trade shows & other events

Discuss: Mechanical Troubleshooting

Discuss: Technical arena. Did you know? Who knows?

Discuss: Machines. Forklifts, stackers, telehandlers, container handlers and reach stackers

Discuss: Business issues

Discuss: Safety, training & legislation

Discuss: Fun at work
©Forkliftaction.com
Privacy policy
Related links
Site map
About us
Marketplace | Business Directory | Discussion Forums | Spec-Checker | Industry News | Events Calendar | Jobs & Resumes | Photo Galleries
Forkliftaction.com – PO Box 1439, Milton QLD 4064, Australia