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MCFA Relationship Strained?

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NTOLERANCE
Wisconsin, United States

Heard a rumour that the Caterpillar Mitsubishi relationship may be going through some changes. Any truth? Saw a new 5000lb electric cat that was made in Finland. Anyone have any info?

Doc.

Posted 13 Jan 2005 2:14 PM

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scot_s
Michigan, United States

forgot

Modified 13 Jan 2005 11:21 PM
by poster.

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diesel
Quebec, Canada

It is very possible since Rocla Robotruck from Finland is told to be building the new Mitsu/Cat reach truck frame's. An other question is why is the new Mitsu\Cat propane truck build by Nissan ???? ( Platinium ). Did Cat ever build a lift ?? or just got some one elses truck painted Cat colors ???

Posted 14 Jan 2005 10:10 AM

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NTOLERANCE
Wisconsin, United States

Cat did build a lift. Originally, Towmotor. Later changed to the full Cat name. Early truck such as the old M40 series were updated (heavily) Tomotors. Later Cat built the truck that would eventually become the Daewoo. Cat had at some point and time, contracted Daewoo to build the Cat trucks for North America (we US at least) Later after the Cat / Misti deal Daewoo ended up selling the Relabeled Cat truck.

Thats a pretty rough history, I may be off a few details.

Mitsi stopped using a 3.0 v in ther larger trucks (6000lb capacity and higher some years ago in favor of the GM 4.3 Vortec v6. ( I think it was cost and reliability issues.) The 3.0 Mitsi engine was the same engine used in Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth minvans and some cars. Although the engine was tuned and built for industrial applications. other reasons for the 3.0-4.3 change may have been brand recognition, how many people have a 4.3 in their SUV or pickup?

As far as the change to the Nissan engine, I cannot elaborate. Havent worked for a Mistsi dealer in a number of years. But I can say, that in my experience, MCFA of Houston, doent make a change unless is positively affects the bottom line.

Heard the Possible Cat Mitsi issues from a Cat dealer employee. Take it for what its worth. His statement was Cat was unhappy.

Doc.

-------------------------
The things I do can cause a person to get hurt expelled arrested even deported. Dont try it at home

Posted 14 Jan 2005 3:31 PM

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diesel
Quebec, Canada

Have you compared the new Mitsu/Cat 5000 lbs pneumatic to the new Nissan Platinium 5000 lbs pneumatic. Except for the colors and some details it is the same lift that is made by Nissan. So the new question now is where does Nissan fit in this Mitsu/Cat deal ????????

Posted 14 Jan 2005 11:13 PM

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NTOLERANCE
Wisconsin, United States

The plot thickens.....

Aparanty there is an issue of someone else building a narrow isle reach truck for one of the two and not the other. I will get more details in the coming week.

Posted 16 Jan 2005 5:18 AM

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Scout
Alberta, Canada

The Nissan Platinum and MCFA are not identical, the fuel and engine management systems are different. The Cat and the Mitsi have only used the block and some frame parts. The Nissan has the five piece overhead guard MCFA is one piece, Counterweight is different, Mast in the MCFA is lesser quality, and the seat in the Nissan is a suspension seat, an extra $300.00 hit on the MCFA trucks. Nissan has a good thing with this Platinum truck, they would never give away the keys.

Posted 22 Jan 2005 5:55 AM

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Admin

Australia

I saw this on an old press release:

" Rocla Oyj and Mitsubishi Caterpillar Forklift Europe B.V. (MCFE) have concluded an exclusive agreement by which Rocla takes up representation of Caterpillar counterbalance trucks in Finland, Estonia and Russia as of January 2002."

Here is the URL
http://www.pressi.com/int/release/40847.html

Posted 31 Jan 2005 1:31 PM

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tate_i
Tokyo, Japan

Hi, NTOLERANCE

I'm sure you have read the news letter #193 of Jan.27. MCFA(Mitsu-Cat-Fork-Ame) is the largest share holder of Rocla (30.8% by '02 Dec, see their HP). I understand Caterpiller is just lending MCFA their brand/logo and receives brand fee.

Mitsubishi and Nissan jointly developped their latest model (speculated to be once and the last), thus there are many common components in these models.

Caterpillar seems to have no interest in Lift Truck business to me. And I hear no bad relation talks of Caterpillar-Mitsubishi construction equipment company in Japan. Their business scale of earth-moving equipment is far greater than their lift truck business.

I am still interested the subject you have raised, keep us informed.

Posted 4 Feb 2005 3:19 PM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

well, let's see, as I understand it, am I am no expert in this,
the largest portion of the Employees of MCFA are former Cat employees. the factory is on ground and neighbourhood first purchased by Mitsu for expansion into the USA.

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registered linux user #167806 (http://counter.li.org/)

Modified 6 Mar 2008 5:23 AM
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denis_r
South Carolina, United States

The CAT truck you saw which said made in Finland is correct. All European warehouse equipment made for CAT was manufactured by Rocla of Finland. Have a look at there website, they make some excellent machines. The original machines where NRS35 etc, then NR3000. I have manuals on these trucks as i used to work for CAT UK. They carry a full range of warehouse equipment. I recently saw an AC powered reach truck in North Carolina and what a nice machine it was. If they unleash the whole range into the US it could be very interesting for the competition.

Posted 29 Apr 2005 12:14 PM

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mat03
Texas, United States

As a Cat Dealer Principal this discussion is very intresting to me because there are so many misconceptions.
First off, the new Nissan forklift is not the same at all.  The early stages of the product were developed together so the styling is similar.  The engine and transmission are the same and that is it.  After these two parts, Nissan took a cost cutting approach and MCFA lived up to the Cat name.  Some major differences are: the stronger mast in the Cat, one piece headguard on the Cat, and the software that controls the engine.
The mast deflection in the Nissan is the worst in the industry; and all the Mit/Cat masts are made in Houston with the trucks - the only LiftTech mast that is put on a Cat truck is the quad mast for counterbalanced and the mast for the Narrow Isle Reach truck (NR3000-NR4500).  (Frame-Rocla & Mast-LiftTech then they are assembled in Houston).

To clarify some of the other statements:  MHI still makes the 4G64 engine, a majority of the MCFA employees are old Cat guys, there is no bad blood between Cat, Mit, or MCFA,  and the 8000-11000 Nissan truck is built in Houston by MCFA for Nissan.

Posted 4 Jun 2005 6:14 AM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

who makes those cool intergal side shifters that don't take anything away from the 'lift center' like a hang on sideshifter?

Modified 6 Mar 2008 5:23 AM
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mat03
Texas, United States

you are correct with the Integral sideshifter, Liftech does make it.
As far as the 4G64 MHI has always made it. Who do you think makes it?

Posted 10 Jun 2005 1:17 AM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

I was under the understanding that MHI had stopped producing the 4g63 and 4g64, and the fact MHI was going to discontinue manufacturing them was seminal in the reason to plan on building the new k21/k25 powered product. The reason why some 2004s were powered with tier 2 Impco systems had to do with getting the k21/k25 powered units ready, and being able to use up the rest of the 4g63/4g64 stock.

I sure have to agree with you that the idea of a 'strain' between Mitsu and Cat at the factory level would have to equal self hate.
Those guys have to wear a Mitsubishi hat & shirt Wednesday thru Saturday, and a Caterpillar hat & shirt the rest of the week (or vise versa), so unless they really have a hate for the other side of their personality, it would be pretty difficult (at this stage) for them to NOT get along.

Posted 10 Jun 2005 2:55 AM

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Av_Joe
South Carolina, United States

Through the years, since 1992 (CAT/Mit join venture started), CAT has reduced their ownership of MCFA from nearly 20% to about (or bellow) 10%. It will be interesting how this evolves in the comming years. Caterpillar Inc. does not allow MCFA to use the Caterpillar name, the "official" name is CAT Lift Trucks and they can use the CAT logo

The 3000 lbs-7000lbs pneumatics, and The 3000 lbs-6000lbs cushions, are not identical to the Nissan Platinum series, but the only difference is in the mast, the control unit for the truck functions, which also interacts with the fuel system and a few other cosmetic items. The Nissan 8000lbs-10000lbs pneumatics are built in Houston by MCFA. The masts for of these trucks are built in house, except for the quad, which is supplied by Liftek.

The new line of class II trucks, the chassis in made by Rocla and the mast by Liftek. Class III, I am not sure if they finally made a decision to go with Jungheinrich in some of their models.

Like other manufacturers of more than one brand, in MCFA the internal relationship is good, they wear different hats and shirts whenever they have to, and they do it in harmony.

The 4G63 and 4G64 was really built by Mitsubishi motors not MHI, diesel engines, S4S and S6S are built by MHI. The 4G63 and 64 got to the point that they were not cost efective. The Nissan TB42 is probably being used in some of the large pnumatic trucks.

In addition to the CAT/Mit. name brands, they revided the Towmotor, I have seen very few, so, I do not know if it was just a one time thing or just a market research project.

CAT, Mitsubishi, Rocla, Nissan, Towmotor . . . are we confused or what ??

Posted 12 Aug 2005 12:36 AM

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Gordo
Alberta, Canada

Mat 03: that's a typical statement from a guy who only see's yellow, to say Nissan took the cheap route is ridiculous.We've put them side by side and they are both solid for today's standards.
The only real difference is that there aren't any Cat components on the Cat except for the yellow paint.
If you want a Nissan power plant you buy a Nissan not a copy cat.
I mean when you go buy a Chev do you request a Ford power plant?
Explain to me where you got your info from.

Posted 13 Aug 2005 12:52 AM

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etharp
North Carolina, United States

Gordo has at least one point, I am willing to bet my paycheck that MCFA and Nissan build trucks that meet ASME 56.1.
His point about engine manufacturers, though, does not wash, unless you intend to tell everyone never to purchase a Hyster/Yale, as last I saw, they have _NO_ IC engine manufacturing facilities.
as far as one or the other, (and NOT relating to local dealership relations), I guess I would suggest that if the customer has a real problem with damage to overhead guards then in the long run, what appears to be "a cheaper route" might be the way to go, as the main complaint I see between the 2 is the overhead guard on the MCFA product is one piece, and the OHG on the Nissan is bolted together, and can be replaced in parts, instead of one componant. saving in shipping OHGs too... other side of the stick is the noise and safety factor after a few years on a rough floor or going over dock plates, seems to me the welded OHG would hold together better and be less noisy. I don't have the time to do really extensive testing on the metals used to make the mast to make any statements about their respective strengths, and suggest the customer demos both to get a feel for the differences.
Has anyone looked at both brake systems yet?

-------------------------
registered linux user #167806 (http://counter.li.org/)

Modified 12 Dec 2007 9:12 PM
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